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Ar Vs The Others

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There's a simple way to judge each render engine, at lest as far as final image is concerned - just go searching for images. Look on the net and in places like 3D World magazine and note how many knockout images you can find rendered with each engine. People keep saying that AR can produce great results - if that's true, where are they? I guarantee you if you do a search for images that will blow your trousers off your list is going to be pretty light on AR renders.

Cheers

Karl

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Ben Campbell only uses AR and I'd say his renders blow trousers, socks, and shoes off most people who see them. I personally chose Vray and agree that it's miles better than AR, but if you know what you're doing then AR can produce great quality renders. http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=35227

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agree with that his work with AR is great, AR takes a lot of understanding to make it work, some of the guys on the vray forum quite often say how good it is if you know what your doing,

i now preffer vray but the reason i wanted to do my wheel in AR was because i knew i could the look i was after very quickly, and i need to learn more about vray..

it also comes down to personal taste alot aswell, some people like a certain style of render, some dont, sure there isnt as much AR around as say vray or maxwell, but then cinema isnt as widely used as some other apps.

just my opinion

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Got me there! But I can't think of any others, can you? And you don't have to struggle to find top stuff done in Vray. Personally I think Maxwell is the best - it's just too slow to be of any use.

Cheers

Karl

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cyclad

Hey, it's neck and neck so far! :)

mgacal

"I'm more interested in realism than speed."

Then Maxwell's your answer.

ScottA

Thank you! Phew, for a moment there I thought I'd been found out! laugh.gif

Cheers

Karl

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pros and cons, arnt they fun! everyone has a valid point, maybe we should all buy and learn them all :)

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"opend a poll at 3d attack".- Cyclad

Thanks! The more the merrier! laugh.gif

I'm learning a lot from the comments....things you don't

find out till you've used something for a while.

It'll help me to make an informed decision, instead of

going by my gut feeling......"I want it now!"

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added the default c4d engine to the poll. I kinda forgot that AR isnt the basic renderer lololol. So long since im using it

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I am the one who did the Vray review for the Cafe and it's completely an independent report. I have to say there was very little that I didn't like about Vray however. It produced amazingly realistic results since it works with real world lighting settings and camera controls just as an SLR camera works in real life. The options are deep and varied for control and output. Some have a bit of trouble with animations but one thing that is really important to me is that the developers are constantly adding new features, upgrading the options already there and are open at all times to suggestion. The price is high for a lot of users however and I believe it would depend on what you are going to be using it for in your work. As a hobby, it might not be cost effective, but if you are using it for client work, then it will add greatly to your output. Having said all of that, AR is nothing to be sneezed at. It's a good solid basic option that a lot of users don't understand or learn to use in depth. And as megacal said, it is being developed. If I were on the cusp of deciding what to buy, since we are due to hear some new info from MAXON soon hopefully, I think I would keep adding my pennies to the jar and wait just a bit to see where it all goes. ;-)

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Yeah one thing is for sure though.

Most users in the CG world, mostly rookies like the idea where the application does all work for them.

They think they read somewhere in the manual or the box that no human intervention is required,

Except...Press the "Make what I need Button"

Kinda like the Easy button on that tv commercial,

push a button,

go eat,

come back,

and its done the way everyone else wants it done.

Amazing......isn't it.

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Me personally,

I like AR.

Whats weird sometimes i don't even use AR,

Most of the time I don't use anything but lights.

If you now how to work and tweek to your blue in the face just to keep your renders down to this life time, AR can be your best friend when you need it.

Beside, is the CG realism ever gonna stop and how for will it go.

And one day will you be able to tell the difference from CG and Reality.

Machine are faster and more powerful, and zippier then they where yesterday.

So the advancement is never going to end until reality meets virtual CG reality.

Then what?

Keep going.

Where......?

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quote "Ben does a lot of clean up and Photoshop editing to his images.

His work isn't a good source to use to compare render engine results."

this is where alot of the difference is, there is a real divide between people who do lot of post work and people that dont,

on a proffesional level i dont see that anyone would just use a straight render, i for one never leave my render as it is, theres always something to tweak, animation is a different story i guess where you dont want to be doing all the post work to every frame, although most people that use a 3d package would also then use something like after after effects to grade the animation or add extra details and moods, for me you could have the best renderer in the world an it still wouldnt be enough,

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quote "Ben does a lot of clean up and Photoshop editing to his images.

His work isn't a good source to use to compare render engine results."

I think his results are as good as I've seen from AR so a very valid example for render results. Sure he does post work in Photoshop, but so would a pro using Vray or Maxwell.

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yep, the basis has to be there to do the post work his results are a very very good example

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....why not pool our resources?

How about a few volunteers....eg. each one take the same exact scene and render it

on one of the following engines, tweeked as you may...give it your best shot:

1. C4D alone

2. AR

3. VRay

4. Maxwell

5. FinalRender

6. FryRender

7. WhatEverElseIsOutThereRender R1.5003.02 (1 bazillion Euros) roflmao.gif

Maybe Kiwi or Damsel could be the referee, give us the .c4d scene????

Then submit the untouched results (no post stuff) for comparison.

I'd be happy to do the stand-alone C4D. :)

Edited by megacal

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Spot on Scott.

Cheers

Karl

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fair enough point, unlike me to go off in the wrong direction laugh.gif

as you say

"It does have some very well known problems handling flat surfaces. And dealing with complicated light bounces inside a room.

That's why you'll find it at the top of every wish list out there. "

also very true, someone did a maxwell render here a little while back with some reflective surfaces and the difference was mind blowing.

il shut up now smile.gif

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Colibert,

as you have AR & VRay, would you be willing to take the render challenge

if one gets set up, to do the renders in AR & VRay? You seem very adept

at both.

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Its unfair for the challenge.

one might have tricks up the sleave that the other is unaware of.

I know i could use some....rrr .........alot more schooling in vray. just to be halfway decent at it.

Finalrender for c4d has its own xpresso editor, weird huh.

Guess its uses all of cinemas attribute nativaly.

Even the material has a xpresso editor to it.

Haven't yet figured that one out yet

Edited by mrkucz

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yeah i would be happy to give it a shot, but as mrkuz says its a bit of a weird challenge, there are lots of littlle tricks people have and use, saying that id be prepared to take a scene and do a straight render from both

im no expert and there are a lot of people of who have better lighting and texturing knowledge than me so it wouldnt be a true test, but then where do you stop, theres always someone who can get more out of things than the last person, and there are a lot more experienced people on here than me

Edited by colibert

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Instead of a challenge, do a homework type of deal with a scene and specified setting,or doesn't cinema log things for ya.

Or a video cast of what your doing any why.

Yeah, alot can be learned from this sort thing

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"yeah i would be happy to give it a shot, but as mrkuz says its a bit of a weird challenge, there are lots of littlle tricks people have and use, saying that id be prepared to take a scene and do a straight render from both.

im no expert and there are a lot of people of who have better lighting and texturing knowledge than me so it wouldnt be a true test, but then where do you stop, theres always someone who can get more out of things than the last person, and there are a lot more experienced people on here than me" - Colibert

You're way too modest....I looked at the interior shot that comes up on your gallery, and thought, "Ooooooh! Well done!" (VRay?)......and that's your "early work".

Just thought it would be fun & informative to see the different renders of the same scene.

Thanks for all the helpful feedback.....I'm going to try the Maxwell trial (per Lesia44's suggestion),

probably will wait to see what happens with AR, and maybe even save up for VRay.

Hopefully MAXON is listening to what's been said.

Cheers everyone!

spoton.gif

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Always good to remember that some people can produce mind blowing artwork with basic hardware such as this -

laugh.gif It's all how you use it I guess..

Cheers,

Brian

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Don't be silly, Caran d'Ache is much better! :)

Cheers

Karl

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