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Ar Vs The Others


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#1 megacal

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:15 PM

Hi,

I want to add caustics, sss, etc to my renders. Is there a
review that compares the different render engines?

Is there a poll that shows how many C4D users have
AR, VRay, etc?

I see the review for VRay but it seems more like
the companys info than an independent review.

Seems like there was a review I saw several months
ago, and someone added a link to a very cool car model
outdoors that was done with C4D alone, i.e. without AR (?)

Thanks!
Cal

ps- also wanted to turn on the lights in this new forum. :)
The fun has begun! =)

#2 sfBlackFox

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 03:08 PM

usually, AR will do a great job. You just need to tweak it a lot to get things right. Vray however does that job quiet a bit faster than the AR You'll still need to tweak it and it has some issues, but overall it's a better renderer. ;) But it comes with a price. (if you are going to add volume caustics... those things are death slow on the AR - Surface is a little more doable, but it will still take a lot of time)

I've been looking around on the net for those questions, but nothing came up unfortunately.
I think that if you are a professional, you should have a copy. if you are an amateur, you can still have one. it can save you a lot of frustration with GI. just consider the price tag
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#3 Vilandra

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:05 PM

Personally, I can say that AR is a great engine. It can produce some very nice renders, but since MAXON wont comment on whether its still being developed or on the verge of extinction, its rather hard to make the decision to buy it.

VRay is also a very good engine. Its very good for exterior and interior stuff, however the current version has an issue with flickering when you have object movement and GI. Not sure when this will be addressed, but to get no flickering, you have to adjust the settings up which kills render times. However for camera fly-thrus with no or little movement, its great!

FinalRender is one that a lot of people leave out, and im not sure why. Its a great engine and has the "architectural" material. Which means it uses the native C4D material settings. VRay cannot do this. You have to set up a seperate vray material. FinalRender also has the Shader Tree which looks like an xpresso window editor, but its for making custom materials.

When it comes to rendering object animation (like character animation), FinalRender does a great job, and its fast! I recently had the opportunity to use it on a small animation I made, and there was no flickering with very low GI settings. The only draw-back is that you'll need to familiarize yourself with the shader tree. At first it can appear impossible to learn.

Hope this helps.

#4 megacal

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:55 PM

AR is very old. And MAXON won't comment on whether it's planning on upgrading it

Hadn't considered that possibility, so I just emailed their customer support with that question....
is it still alive and will it be upgraded? Will let you know if they reply (or not).

Seems like they would want to keep us purchasing the module rather than a 3rd party engine.

VRay sounds and looks great, but at (cough! cough!) $1230 US vs $595, I have to think long & hard about it.

Thanks for the FinalRender info.....sounds like a viable choice for me.....will see if there are any trial versions
of the engines available to try before I buy.

Also will try to compare feature sets of the different engines, but you still have to drive it to know what it can do.

That's why I wanted some user feedback on what you like or not about a particular renderer, how many use
AR vs others. It will help me (an others hopefully) to make the decision on which one to invest in.

Things have been getting a bit tight lately! =O
The fun has begun! =)

#5 3DKiwi

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:36 PM

I see the review for VRay but it seems more like the companys info than an independent review.


The Cafe's review of Vray was completely independent as are the others. We're free to say what we like. Vray in my opinion gives superb results but it's way over priced or the C4D version is. I'm sticking with the AR module as it's easier to use and I'm still not getting the most out of it yet.

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#6 Vozzz

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:31 PM

yeah i have to agree with Vilandra. Vray is great for stills, animation is iffy. Like there are a lot of guides, but they are really long.

Vray is great for displacement though. It does it very quickly, and of great quality. (spd)

#7 megacal

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:30 PM

I'm sticking with the AR module as it's easier to use and I'm still not getting the most out of it yet. -3DKiwi


Good to know.....but would like to get some feedback from MAXON about AR's future.

Edited by megacal, 04 August 2008 - 11:31 PM.

The fun has begun! =)

#8 sjcrompo

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:39 PM

I'm not sure you will get to much info there. In my opinion it is a case of wait and see.

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#9 megacal

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 12:57 AM

Hopefully they will want to assure us they are still developing it.
I'm still optimistic (notwithstanding the price of petrol, melting glaciers,
and a sinking dollar).....will let you know. =)
The fun has begun! =)

#10 megacal

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:35 PM

...just had a nice chat with a good guy at MAXON USA in California, and
without devulging any details, assured me that AR is indeed viable
and being developed.

So as Steve said, we'll have to "wait & see".

I'll start saving my milk money.

[img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img]
The fun has begun! =)

#11 sjcrompo

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:36 PM

Well at least thats something :)

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#12 StCanas

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 01:47 PM

There's a few posts here saying that Vray doesn't work for animation. Mmmm...

http://www.swaystudio.com/Sway_Mine_HR__.htm

This is the 3D Max version of Vray but the only thing that differs here is how it links to the program. The render engine, the part that determines if the image flickers or not, is exactly the same. This animation is 100% CGI.

Cheers
Karl

#13 3D-Pangel

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 03:43 PM

...just had a nice chat with a good guy at MAXON USA in California, and
without devulging any details, assured me that AR is indeed viable
and being developed.

So as Steve said, we'll have to "wait & see".

I'll start saving my milk money.

[img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img]


Care to call him back and ask him if any other modules are still viable? Dynamics comes to mind? How about Thinking Particles?

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#14 StCanas

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 04:13 PM

And ask him about my fillet tool while you're at it!

Cheers
Karl

#15 megacal

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 04:42 PM

Now that he's said that. California is going to break apart and sink slowly into the sea.

Actually, the sea is coming to us as we speak!!! =O

But they won't even communicate that little bit of harmless information with their customers.
Apparently we don't deserve to know that kind of information.


Yeah, I passed on that as well, letting him know in no uncertain terms that
MAXON needs to drop some crumbs to the faithful about AR (I didn't ask about
the other modules yet).

You would think MAXON would want AR to be The Premiere renderer for C4D
so no one would spend their money elsewhere. Beats me.

Although from a small survey I did of members, it appears that AR is still the most
widely used, and only a handful have purchased VRay or another engine (?).
The fun has begun! =)

#16 megacal

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:08 PM

Good to know the pros & cons of the different renderers. Price is
a big factor for me.

I would like to know if MAXON is going to try to compete with
VRay......side by side, is VRay that much better than AR, or
does it have a particular feature that is missing in AR?

I'd still like to find that car and who did it, evidently with
C4D alone.....anyone remember that post?
The fun has begun! =)

#17 3dkobi

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:58 PM

Vray is not only more accurate than AR, it's also faster....
The downside - some features from c4d can't be used. I'm doing a project with vray now, and I just find out that it doesn't support include/exlude objects in the lights attributes. Version 1.1 is coming soon and I hope they'll fix those integration problems....

The price is VERY high, and I wouldn't have bought it unless my client wanted that vray "look" so much...:)

peace
kobi

#18 megacal

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 01:17 AM

the FinalRender gallery is pretty impressive.....and it's only $100 more than AR.

In general, the renders I've seen with AR are good-very good, FinalRender better,
and VRay best by a significant margin.

It's very subjective at this point as I haven't found a comparison of the same scene rendered in each for an objective comparison.

Maxwell seemed comparable with FinalRender. Just going by the gallery pics......don't know how fast each is,
or what strengths or weaknesses they have if any.

Fryrender appears to be capable of incredibly realistic renders comparable (or better than?) VRay. But also expensive.....795 Euros.

I'm more interested in realism than speed.

Anyone have experience with Maxwell or Fryrender?

Edited by megacal, 06 August 2008 - 01:20 AM.

The fun has begun! =)

#19 dhpdigital

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 01:45 AM

Didn't paulselhi do the same render with different render engines in a recent thread?

#20 mala

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 01:48 AM

Interesting info you managed to get there...i really do hope there is a new AR soon,i've been hanging on hoping there will be a new version so i don't have to blow all my money on Vray


Love their software.
Hate their PR department.


Maxons PR is ok...Compared to pixologic...a year and half mac users have been waiting for Zbrush3,with loads of missed released dates and misinformation :) ....
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