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Unbiased Renderer


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#1 HSrdelic

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 05:39 AM

I am in position where a customer wants a huge series of photorealistic images for his company,anyway now I am presented with opportunity to get an unbiased renderer.Price does not matter since client accepted to bare that expense
I know for Maxwell,Fryrender and Indigo.
Actually client is overwhelmed with Maxwell because he saw some renderes somewhere so that is the first choice for now.

Since they all can produce great images i was wondering rather about this next few things

- Wich one is most compatible with C4D native shader system?
- Wich one is most "integrated" with C4D
- Wich one is considered to have most features?
- Wich one is easiest to use?
- Wich one has best support (material library,tutorials,troubleshooting etc)

And so on...

Also I wanted to know what render times are?does it mean that we have to get a render farm to get decent results in normal time span,or can render times be acceptable on fastest i7?or upcoming 6-core i7?

I dont have illusions that i can render animations on single machine :thisrocks:

I would really like some feedback from users that have on off those


Thanks in advance,

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#2 eldooder

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 05:59 AM

Well Maxwell seems to be the most popular, which I also own. There's a forum for maxwell and lots of help around the internet. Also it's quite well intergrated with cinema now. You can use cinema's own materials for texturing your scene and maxwell converts them at render time - only some of the channels work though.

One very nice feature in Maxwell is multilight. Basically whilst your image is rendering you can turn lights off/on and change their intensity...

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#3 HSrdelic

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 06:31 AM

That multilight certainly looks promising :thisrocks:,so you say i can play with illumination while rendering and also after render finishes?

going on their site now...

Anyone else maybe?

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#4 Guest_Rizzla_*

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 06:43 AM

while I don´t use maxwell myself, if you look here (maybe you´ve already seen it, but just incase)..

http://www.maxwellrender.com/version2/noise_comparison.html

..you get some info on rendertimes, and I must say that they all look suprisingly low, aspecially with the upcoming 2.0.

#5 HSrdelic

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 06:53 AM

I looked at it and it looks really good,some images there are extraordinary.Since it is unbiased it would basically mean you dont need to tamper with settings alot since it is all phisically correct,right?Just long render times,and of course basic knowledge of physics,optics etc?

I think those render times are very quick for accurate simulation?

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#6 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:03 AM

Odd that those renders at the link are not very impressive considering what Maxwell is capable of. You better be prepared for long render times if you're going for Maxwell.

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#7 Guest_Rizzla_*

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:03 AM

Yes, when I´ve seen maxwell in action, it almost looks too easy :thisrocks: there really aren´t any quality options at all, you just press render and it creates a realistic image. Even when you try to make objects look CG, maxwell just makes them look lifelike anyway, there´s really something special in the way it handles AA that just creates a photolike quality.

And yes, I agree, it feels like it should take forever to do a true lighting situation, but I guess we have to trust next limit on those rendertimes :)
When I saw maxwell being used on a quad it seemed quite fast. But then again, it would be interesting to have some input from a Fryrender/indigo user here.


and lesia, I agree, but I think they´re just looking to show off renderspeeds and noise reduction, more than showing what the render really is capable of.

Edited by Rizzla, 24 July 2009 - 07:05 AM.


#8 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:09 AM

Yes, I think they've been a bit crafty there and used some pretty simple and underdeveloped scenes to make it look faster than it really is.

Cheers
Karl

#9 Guest_Rizzla_*

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:14 AM

I guess the best image to look at is the untextured interior render. 120 min on a i7, and probably at least the double if you put materials in there. Still, quite fast imo.

#10 HSrdelic

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:15 AM

Of course they do...that is why I asked "real" users for input.I just saw there are 3000+ free materials on the site :P

EDIT:i think that scene would take at least 4x when shaded.

the thing that catches me the most is multilight,and i would really like to know whic channels dont work when converting native Cinema materials

Edited by hsrdelic, 24 July 2009 - 07:20 AM.

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#11 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:29 AM

This thing about materials comes up a lot when people talk about Vray. It usually goes something like "Vray would be brilliant if only you could use C4D native materials..." That's usually said by people who haven't use Vray because after using it for a while it drives you mad when you have to go back and use C4D materials, they feel so crude. I suspect Maxwell is the same, once you've used the Maxwell materials for a while the material issue won't be an issue.

Cheers
Karl

Edited by Lesia44, 24 July 2009 - 12:44 PM.


#12 HSrdelic

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:50 AM

sure,but maybe i could refresh old scenes quickly for direct comparison

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#13 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 08:14 AM

Actually, on that subject, is Vray not good enough?

K

#14 paulselhi

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 09:58 AM

Fryrender allows for live/animatable variations in lighting, you render each light in a seperate layer and can control their strenghts post render

Fry also has a program called fry swap which aloows for almost instant rerenders using different materials

It also had some sort of realtime capability but i have not tried the latest demo and this may well not be included in the demo

In general fry is more user friendly than maxwell and seems a bit more logical to work with though the mats are based on the same concepts and are a bit confusing coming from a standard 3d background

#15 eldooder

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:57 AM

Hi, yep you can control ilumination during the render and after render. It also creates a type of render file, so you can load that up anytime later and adust light intensities. Also means you can pause and resume renders(essential with the render times).I think its also animatable as well - although i havent tried any type of anims in Maxwell.

Not sure which channels work exactly(i use maxwell materials mostly), but colour, specular, reflection, bump and displacement all work i believe.

Paulselhi - That fryswap sounds like a great little time saver, but Maxwell is so user friendly, not many settings and you just hit render. Haven't tried fry though.

Edited by eldooder, 24 July 2009 - 11:00 AM.


#16 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:32 AM

Check out Cafe member davedavidson's home page for lots of really nice Fry examples.

Cheers
Karl

#17 Push

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:55 AM

I can't give any help with this one, sorry, but I'm very interested in knowing what the outcome will be.

Also I really wish I had a client like yours.

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#18 sneather

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:33 PM

I've been on the verge of buying a 3rd party render system for some time. 99% of my work is animation, not still rendering. What are the experiences with speed and quality of animations from any of the above mentioned programs?

Thanks.

#19 pariahcreative

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:50 PM

Maxwell every time.
It's now perfectly intergrated with cinema 4D. Multilight can be a life saver as well.
Just add lights for everything you think you may need. You can then relight instantly either during or after the render.
You can also keyframe the lighting changes and save out a movie, i.e day to night, interior lights come on etc...

I wouldn't worry about the channels you can use in cinema. The maxwell shader is very powerful and is accessed in the material manager just like any other shader.

I can't recommend it highly enough.

Rob

#20 StCanas

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:06 PM

^ But for animation? You must have got time on your hands.

Cheers
Karl




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