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movement of grasshopper


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#1 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 08:44 AM

Hi all,

I have been in the process of trying to rig and animate an existing model of a grasshopper using mostly keyframing... as a newb.
Now I want the grasshopper to bend down as shown in the movie enclosed but with my rudimentary rig
that doesn't seem to work without distorting the whole thing.
I am quite desperate as I have been working on this for the last 5 weeks and this is frustrating me terribly. So if anyone could give me some pointers on
how to handle this pleeeaasse let me know.

Thanks soo much,

Alex

file can be found here :https://files.me.com/alexandraverhaest/f7ppyt

#2 Cactus Dan

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:48 AM

Howdy,

Well, you probably don't want to hear this, but I would suggest scrapping what you have and starting over from scratch.

The first thing to do with your model before you start over is to straighten it out so that the mesh is parallel to the world axis and also that it's axis is parallel to the world axis.
[attachment=97429:FixedModel.jpg]

In your other thread about workflow, notice my first step is to fix the model. :)

One thing to remember about IK is that setting up IK on more than 2 or 3 bones can sometimes be too difficult to control. You're better off only using the IK on the main joints of a leg. Consider a human leg; you wouldn't normally setup the IK from the hip to the toe tip. You would only set up the IK from the hip to the ankle, and then create additional controllers for the foot.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

#3 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:54 AM

Dear Dan,

I have a straightened file... but that doesn't seem to help the deformation much.
Also , As far as I know I have set up the ik from the hip over the thing's knee to the thing's ankle. But maybe I've miscounted.
What a straight file do that this one doesn't?? how can I help the deformation?

Thanks,

Alex

#4 Cactus Dan

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:45 AM

Howdy,

Well, the file you posted does not have the mesh straightened out like the image I posted.

As for the deformation, bad deformation usually means bad skin weighting and/or bad joint placement.

Looking at your joint rig, it looks like you've got too many unnecessary joints and the joint placement is not at the proper pivot points.
For example, take a look at your back leg setup:
[attachment=97433:GrasshopperBackLeg.jpg]

That's the main reason I would suggest starting all over.

Adios,
Cactus Dan

Edited by Cactus Dan, 24 August 2010 - 10:46 AM.


#5 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:51 AM

HI Dan,

So much less joints and better alignment would do the trick?
If I do it with less joints and better alignment and a straight model, will I be able to get the grasshopper to bend down without having to do further rigging than I did?
This is the 6th time I'm starting over for different reasons...
I'm so desperate, I'm looking into buying a real grasshopper and just greenkeying the thing... :)

#6 Horganovski

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:07 AM

Hi Alex, if I remember correctly, you contacted me a while back about rigging a few different insects for you? I guess you didn't like my quote as I didn't hear back from you :) . Sorry to hear you are having trouble with this, I would make the same suggestion as Dan and recommend starting over. Hopefully you can appreciate anyway why rigging costs what it does as it does take a while to produce a quality rig that's easy to animate with. I think I mentioned at the time that part of the cost in my quote was related to the meshes being quite detailed which means the weight painting can take a while to get right.

Best of luck with the project in any case.

Cheers,
Brian

#7 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:12 AM

Hey Brian,

Sorry for not getting back to you... Indeed I thought the quote was steep also considering that I suddenly had more time to do it myself... though this is taking much more time than my nervesystem can handle. Probably because I have no idea what I'm doing.. but then again I'm learning.. the hard way though.

cheers,
Alex

#8 Cactus Dan

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:14 AM

Howdy,

Well, you need to finish your rig. As it is now, you only have IK controllers for the legs. You need thorax, head, abdomen, feet, wing and antennae controls to finish the rigging.

This is basically how your rig should work:
http://www.cactus3d.com/FlyRig.mov

Adios,
Cactus Dan

#9 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:20 AM

Hi Dan,

Yes it should work that way ... :)
Do you have a tutorial on that rig?? http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/beg.gif

I tried to Ik the spine, but whenever I move the IK handle, the mesh deforms terribly... even after weightpainting it nice and neat... do you have any idea on what I am doing wrong?

#10 Cactus Dan

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:16 PM

Howdy,

...Do you have a tutorial on that rig?? [img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/beg.gif[/img]...

Sorry, but no, I don't have a tutorial on that rig setup.


...I tried to Ik the spine, but whenever I move the IK handle, the mesh deforms terribly... even after weightpainting it nice and neat... do you have any idea on what I am doing wrong?...

Well, as I mentioned before, if the weighting and/or joint placement is bad, then you will get bad deformations. But also if your rigging is bad to where the joints end up twisting around when moving the controllers to extreme positions, you'll also get bad deformations. That's why I normally use those steps I outlined in your other thread about workflow. You really should get all the controls created and working first, and test to make sure everything is stable before skinning the mesh. Rigging is very tedious work and it requires a lot of patience. If you rig in an orderly fashion, you'll get good results, but if you work hap-hazardly, then you'll easily get discouraged with the poor results.

If you haven't already seen them, check out my "Basics of Rigging" tutorials:
http://www.c4dportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4374

The tutorials are still a work in progress, and you can see that there are already 5 chapters on setting up the basic skeleton and controls, and we still haven't gotten to the skinning. :)

Adios,
Cactus Dan

#11 Guest_alexverhaest_*

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:29 PM

Thanks Dan
:)

#12 Horganovski

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:40 PM

Indeed I thought the quote was steep also considering that I suddenly had more time to do it myself... though this is taking much more time than my nervesystem can handle. Probably because I have no idea what I'm doing..



Well, that's why they say 'time is money' I guess :)

I don't see a need to lower my prices because my time is valuable to me, my current clients appreciate my work and experience has shown me how long it takes to build a solid rig. Of course if you have the time to learn to do it yourself and you are not under pressure from a client to have the project finished in time then it's less of an issue and I definitely understand you deciding to do it yourself.

I would suggest starting with something a little simpler though, perhaps build a basic biped rig first following Dans tutorials, then you'll be in a better position to tackle something like an insect rig once you understand the fundamentals.

HTH,
Cheers,
Brian

#13 shawnfoster

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:53 PM

Brian, I have enjoyed watching you grow as a rigger and seeing the cool things you have done, Any thoughts about putting together a rigging dvd or series of tutorials for the masses?


~Shawn
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#14 Horganovski

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:10 PM

Many thanks Shawn, very kind :)

Funny you mention that, I was contacted recently and asked about making a rigging tutorial for one of the companies that sells them online. Unfortunately due to other work commitments I was not able to take it on right now and had to turn it down but I may do something like this in the future. It's a big investment in terms of time though so I can't promise when that will be I'm afraid.

To be honest though, what I'd really like to do would be some animation tutorials rather than rigging, as I think it would be less dry and I'd likely have more enthusiasm for it! I enjoy rigging and feel I have some aptitude (or just stubbornness maybe [img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img] ), but it's really only a means to an end for me.. what I really want to do is animate!

Luckily in many of the jobs I do I end up doing both. On a job I'm working on right now in fact I'm using the same characters I rigged last year for a client and I'm just focussing on some new animation with them. I'm having a lot of fun working on this.

Cheers,
Brian

#15 SKP

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:16 PM

Just want to make a pitch for Dan's tutorials. Absolutely the best for rigging in C4D, though it would be good if he could find time to finish the set.
I may not be good but I'm slow.




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