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R13 Physical Renderer And Camera


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#1 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:19 AM

I cannot get a good render from the physical renderer, is there a tutorial somewhere that shows how to optimize it and decrease the grain and time?? I'm getting worse quality and time than the standard renderer. I also cannot get my DOF to work even with the Front and rear blur set to on, or off, on the physical camera and the aperture at 1.4...

Edited by Keign, 08 September 2011 - 07:45 AM.


#2 cerbera

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:46 AM

I cannot get a good render from the physical renderer, is there a tutorial somewhere that shows how to optimize it and decrease the grain and time?? I'm getting worse quality and time than the standard renderer. I also cannot get my DOF to work even with the Front and rear blur set on the physical camera and the aperture at 1.4...


Well I can get a decent result, and with DoF, but that's with just arbitrary settings, and I haven't found any tutorials that explain why my settings work, and as usual, the manual is of almost zero help in explaining what might be good starter settings. The nearest I have seento something that might help you so far is GSG's Intro to R13 which does sort of lay out some of it.

But yeah, roll on the tut vids that shows us comprehensively how... I imagine HSrdelic / Vertex Pusher and others are working on it, so am confident there will be some fairly soon [img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]

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#3 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:52 AM

I'm sure there will be, I just thought there might be something out there already from the Beta team or others that have had r13 for a year now.

#4 morpheus

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:55 AM

Have you seen the greyscale gorilla intro to the physical renderer? Lots of good tips in there on bits and pieces.
Oh, and with the camera, as it's a physical camera the front and rear blur options you don't need or use.
If you want a high blur amount you need to use the equivalent of a zoom lens to get the large change in DOF. You can also manually crank the blur up abnormally by then decreasing the f-stop.
It's the same with motion blur too. It's all about your shutter angle.

To be honest, you are best looking into actual camera techniques than looking at cg tutorials.

M

Edited by morpheus, 08 September 2011 - 07:58 AM.


#5 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:56 AM

I think I've seen a little of it, I'll check it out again, thanks.

#6 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:07 AM

I should be getting an insane DOF with an f-stop of 1, I wonder why I'm barely getting any. I've tried adjusting the focal distance and plane, as well as zooming in and out.

#7 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:40 AM

I own a DSLR and know all about the actually camera, but with a 50mm prime lens on 1.8 aperture on my real camera, the DOF is wicked. With a DOF of 1 in C4D on a 50mm it's barely noticeable, zoomed or not, telephoto or not. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't know that it directly translates perfect.

Edited by Keign, 08 September 2011 - 08:46 AM.


#8 morpheus

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:07 AM

Make sure you are also replicating the distance of the subject from the lens.

M

#9 cerbera

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:13 AM

Here's a scene file for you to try, which should show you some DoF and HQ rendering... let me know if it works for you...

Edited by cerbera, 08 September 2011 - 10:14 AM.

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#10 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:15 AM

Thanks Cerbera I'll check it out here in a few.

#11 dhpdigital

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:25 AM

Hi Keign. I'm guessing here as I haven't had time to install R13 yet!!! But with Vray being a physical render engine there are things I have learnt over the years which might help. Scale is very important. If you're modelling a pen, then set the units to real world measurements. Make it the length of a real pen. Then things should work like a physical camera. You may be getting tiny amounts of DOF because your opject is way too big in the scene. Try reducing it and test render again [img]http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/bigsmile.png[/img]

#12 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:37 AM

I'm sure scale probably has a lot to do with it, but stock scale should be optimal, it would be pretty inefficient to have to resize everything I create from primitives. I'll try messing with scene scale as well

#13 3DKiwi

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:41 AM

Re motion blur. I found it easier to use a slow shutter speed rather than using shutter angle.

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#14 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 10:55 AM

It's soooooo slow...

#15 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:10 PM

So does it work the same as a real camera, more light = less grain? I know it doesn't work that way with the exposure and shutter speed, not with grain anyways. Unless I did something wrong in my test.

#16 Fastbee

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:13 PM

I'm also finding the new Physical Render engine super slow. It also seems to not support caustics. MAXON spent a lot of time to make a bad render engine. I'm not sure what they were thinking. They could have fixed DOF for the render engine they had.

Most people that did not like the old render engine probably also moved on by now. I know I did.

Edited by Fastbee, 08 September 2011 - 12:14 PM.


#17 Keign

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:20 PM

Caustics worked when I tried it with a caustics scene from the content browser. I think it's just going to take some direction from MAXON and some time and tutorials to really get it figured out. We have a class scheduled at work for next Friday, hopefully I'll be able to get some real insight on how to work this renderer and get faster results. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's just my lack of understanding and not a bad renderer, for now :P.

#18 cerbera

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:24 PM

It is definitely slower in some cases, and the grain seems to be part of the physical renderer's output. It certainly is 'a look'...I can almost get rid of it with the highest render settings, but as you say, that takes ages.

So whilst I am pleased it's there, thank goodness they didn't take out the old renderer so we have it to fall back on. I'm also fairly sure that none of us really know what we're doing in the new one yet, so maybe we'll get better results when we do, and shouldn't be too quick to dismiss it this early ? That is rubbish if it doesn't do caustics though.

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#19 dhpdigital

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:26 PM

Re' caustics. What version of R13 do you have. I have Broadcast and it misses caustics and displacement. MAXON could add this as it's the only features missing that are useful to me.

#20 3DKiwi

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:14 PM

Caustics works for me with R13. Here's an old CB caustics scene rendered in R13 with both the standard and physical renderer.

In my opinion the Physical rendered version is much better. In fact I would say the quality of the standard rendered version is awful. The modest increase in render time was well worth it.

The grain you're getting with the Physical renderer can be reduced by increasing the sampling level. The default is very low. However as you increase quality you increase render time. You won't want to be using the Physical Renderer for all of your rendering.

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Load these then flick backwards and forwards using the next and previous buttons found near the top left and right hand edges of the image.

R13 standard renderer. AA Best
CausticsStd.jpg

R13 Physical renderer. Sampling set to high.
CausticsPhys.jpg

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