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Cartoon Bird Feathers Help, Pretty Please


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#1 gwest

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

So I'm modelling a 3D bird, and I'm having trouble getting the feathers down, no pun intended.

I've got the basics of making feathers, add hair, put hair object under feather object, shape feathers, etc, however I really don't know where to go from there.
In particular with regards to different lengths, and feel of the feathers, like the chest, vs arm/wings, vs face, etc.

Ideally (though probably not realistically in terms of a goal for me) I'd love to see something like the birds from Rio as far as feathering:

http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/rio_movie_2-wide.jpg

Although my bird is a bit more anthropomorphic.

Thanks everyone.
Glenn

#2 gwest

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:04 AM

Pretty PRETTY please? With cherries on top.

#3 Nixie

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

Its funny I should come across this as Im wanting to make a bird too. I have a Major Mitchell parrot and I
have wanted to make him for a while now.

With regard to the different size feathers, can you not use multiple hair/feather objects on various selections?
Im not 100% sure myself. I havent done very much with feathers.

From memory there is a tut here that shows you a slightly different way to make feathers with more texturing
options. May be worth checking that out.

I think there is also some old threads here on texturing/rigging birds.

Im interested to see how you progress with this....if you dont mind showing me of course ;)

#4 gwest

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

So far I've watched this tut, which covers the basics of using the feather object with the hair module.


What I was hoping to learn more of, also with hair in general, is controlling the length, etc, something like covered in this tutorial, although it is for Blender:
http://cgcookie.com/blender/2012/01/27/character-modeling-creating-a-cartoon-style-groundhog-part-03/

Is there some way to paint/create a map the controls the length of the hair over all?

Also, would there be a similar way of controlling the colour over all? That is varying the colours over the body of the model with more control than doing different coloured, separate patches.

#5 gwest

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

I'd love to share, but not just yet, as it is for work. Right now it's just the, otherwise naked, model. When/if I figure out the feathers, I'll probably post something, if not the actual model, a different one with similarly applied hair/feathers.

#6 gwest

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

:(

#7 Nixie

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Sorry gwest.

Did you have a look at the tut I mentioned (here) that shows a different method to texturing the feathers?

How familiar are you with the hair module overall?
You can adjust various settings in the attributes and in the actual material settings also.

Can I give you this to explain a bit more about the settings for feathers....

http://www.kxcad.net/CINEMA_4D/help/US/html/OHAIRFEATHER-ID_OBJECTPROPERTIES.html
And an older review that explains things a bit better than I have :wackywink:
http://www.planit3d.com/source/review_files/hair/hair1.html

Nicks hair tut may be helpful too....

http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2011/07/intro-to-hair-in-cinema-4d/

Also, I meant Id like to have a look at your bird when you have finished it. I don't expect you to share the scene files
with me ;) I see now that its for work, and if you are unable to do this, I understand :]

Edited by Nixie, 14 March 2012 - 08:17 AM.


#8 gwest

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:43 AM

Are you referring to the one that involved polygons and texturing them with an alpha channel? I've watched that one, too. My familiarity is about as much as is covered in the 3D Fluff tutorial I posted, lol.

Appreciate the additional links, I'm checking them out now.

#9 Nixie

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:17 AM

Yeah that's the one. So you know the different methods to texturing them, now you just need to
brush up on the settings. Those links should be helpful.

There isnt very much in the way of C4D tuts on feathers, but becoming familiar with the hair module should
really help you a lot.

With regard to what I mentioned above about the different selections. Have a look at this parrot. It was made
in lightwave, but he describes using selections and the types of feathers he used in his description. I know this
one looks a bit scruffy (and probably more realistic than what you are going for), but I think in C4D we can
achieve a neater result with the hair module :]

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/parrot-macaw-3d-model/397958

#10 gwest

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:34 AM

Thanks, yet again. Nick's tutorial touched on a few things that will definitely help, especially with the length, and using an image to map out different lengths. However, once I applied the feather object, this seemed to no longer work. All the guides rendered at full length.
I'm getting closer though, lol.

I'm wondering if there is a way to do something similar in the actual hair object's settings, rather than the material. Also, he mentioned that there is a way to control the colour more specifically over the whole model, but didn't demonstrate it. I think he was trying to do it, but couldn't remember the correct way. Still, very helpful.

I am imagining I will have to do a good bit more of working in sections than I was hoping, however it not as much as I was originally worried about.

#11 morpheus

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:26 AM

You will find that a lot of the high end CG animation use the alpha plane method, it's just that they have lots of tricks for the deformation which stops them look flat.
Quite a lot of the time you will find just using hair (not feathers) is the best way to do the feathers over the body.
It always depend on application. How close are you getting to the character, etc...

Studios don't just make one character and rig and that's it. They have multiple versions depending on the shot that's being made.

A

#12 gwest

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Thanks again for all the help here Nixie and Morpheus.

A couple of tutorials were posted in this thread which answer my questions about over all colouring:
http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/topic/67333-creature-fur/

And the tuts themselves:





Unfortunately I am again finding that they stop affecting things once the feather object is turned on. Looking more and more like I'll be having to go with the plane with alpha, or some other object, method.




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