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FelisArmis

How to learn design hard surface models?

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FelisArmis    0

Hello!
I have a problem creating my own hard surface models - especially spaceships and robots. Even simple and lowpoly.

I can follow tutorials, but when I start to make my own stuff it goes terribly.
How can I learn design and model spaceships and robots in C4D? 

Are there any lessons or courses maybe?
What can you recommend?

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Cerbera    1,273

There are a ton of good tutorials out there on hard surface modelling.

 

One of my favourite series is this one, which is quite old, but goes over a lot of basic techniques. But as you are in R18, you should also watch a decent tut on the new knife tools in that version as well. But you shouldn't limit yourself to just C4D tutorials. Once you are well familiar with Cinema's modelling toolset you can also learn a lot from people working in other programs - I like Arrimus in 3DS Max, whose hard surface skills are top notch. While it's good to watch tutorials initially, the fastest way to increase your skills is by actually getting in there and doing it, every day, until the techniques become second nature.

 

CBR

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FelisArmis    0
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  • 4 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    There are a ton of good tutorials out there on hard surface modelling.

     

    One of my favourite series is this one, which is quite old, but goes over a lot of basic techniques. But as you are in R18, you should also watch a decent tut on the new knife tools in that version as well. But you shouldn't limit yourself to just C4D tutorials. Once you are well familiar with Cinema's modelling toolset you can also learn a lot from people working in other programs - I like Arrimus in 3DS Max, whose hard surface skills are top notch. While it's good to watch tutorials initially, the fastest way to increase your skills is by actually getting in there and doing it, every day, until the techniques become second nature.

     

    CBR

     

    Thank you for your answer! Some very interesting tutorials!
    I am looking for more hard surface design principles rather then polygonal modelling fundamentals.

    Also I'm not understand the process of implementation the design into model very well. Tutorials never contain research phase, only guiding steps.
    Modelers in lessons often use sketches for models. Is it real to model and design at the same time? Or do I need learn to draw and prepare sketches before? 

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    westbam    41

    Well, lets face it, if you just start extruding wings from a cube, without a real plan for the tail or the windows, you will get a spaceship, just not the one you had in mind. Having a real sketch will give of some sort of guidance. Just pick up a pencil and try to sketch a spaceship. Make a picture, clean it up and use it in Cinema.

     

    Researching Planes, spaceships, even when fictional, will really help you to understand how and why you place certain parts somewhere, specially the little detais that make it look real.

     

    I believe it was Beeple who once said, that doing a 2 day course on human anatomy was the most boring thing he ever did, but now he can make anatomically correct creatures.

     

    My faf teacher on youtube for hard surface modeling is Elementza and then especially This lesson.

     

    and to quote SreckomPractice practice practice.

     

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    EAlexander    6

    I would add:  Don't be afraid to try some practice techniques on simple shapes first.  Designing a robot is a huge task and it's so easy to get overwhelmed or frustrated early.  The polygon fundamentals are key to understanding the design process and yes, practice, practice, practice.  So instead of a full mech - why not design something smaller like a med kit from a video game.  When you are done with that, design another one.  When you are done with that, try designing an external hard from the year 2086.  Etc.  Jumping right into a huge build is usually a Herculean task designed to fail.  Vitaly Bulgarov didn't start with the GITS Major body first.

     

    Also - even with precise and mechanical models, you still have to rough it in, get the proportions correct and then fine tune the details.  I see too many people who want it to be perfect right from the beginning and get every nut and bolt and piston, etc in place right out of the gate - without looking at the overall scale and proportions of it.  Think of it like clay, even though it is hard pixels - get the overall form going in the right direction, and then start to sculpt into it.

     

    Here's one of my favorites for inspiration:  

     

     

    And the original piece:

     

    Also like this series:

    http://lesterbanks.com/2017/04/modeling-blast-doors-c4d/

     

    e.

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    Cerbera    1,273

    The key for me is to root your hard surface designs in reality. Whether it exists or not, there will be principles that apply. Designs have to make logical sense, to look like some effort has been put into their design, and that every part has a reason to be where it is and also has a design and manufacturing story behind it. This is quite difficult to do if you are modelling on-the-fly with no reference material or story behind your creation, so most people find it useful to have a good solid idea, drawings, sketches and a ton of photo reference before they actually start modelling in 3D.

     

    However, when you are just doing modelling practice, to get your skills up to scratch, none of that applies, and you can freewheel along quite nicely making random greeble style hard surface elements that you can use or adapt for later designs. That's why I recommended Arrimus, even though he is in 3DS Max - nobody is better at improvising hard surface shapes on the fly than that guy :)

     

    CBR 

     

     

     

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    EAlexander    6

    I agree with the above.  Manufactured items have no extraneous parts or pieces.  Everything serves a simple function.  I always tell my students the best way to get better at 3D modeling (besides logging lots of hours doing it) is to work on pencil sketching.  There you can design and explore form in a way that your brain doesn't even have to think about e.g. you can draw without thinking about "how do I operate this pencil and paper".  3D software occupies a lot of your brain space while you are working.  You can do both at the same time, but it takes a lot of practice.

     

    http://www.ucreative.com/articles/the-importance-of-sketching-in-creating-a-successful-design-work/

     

    Don't be afraid to mess up.  Those "failures" are how you learn and improve.  Just keep making stuff everyday.

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    VECTOR    393
    4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    The key for me is to root your hard surface designs in reality. Whether it exists or not, there will be principles that apply. Designs have to make logical sense, to look like some effort has been put into their design, and that every part has a reason to be where it is and also has a design and manufacturing story behind it. This is quite difficult to do if you are modelling on-the-fly with no reference material or story behind your creation, so most people find it useful to have a good solid idea, drawings, sketches and a ton of photo reference before they actually start modelling in 3D.

     

    CBR 

     

     

     

    :D i wish i did this, i can't help myself i just jump straight in and crack on 

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    VECTOR    393
    7 minutes ago, EAlexander said:

    I would add:  Don't be afraid to try some practice techniques on simple shapes first.  Designing a robot is a huge task and it's so easy to get overwhelmed or frustrated early.  The polygon fundamentals are key to understanding the design process and yes, practice, practice, practice.  So instead of a full mech - why not design something smaller like a med kit from a video game.  When you are done with that, design another one.  When you are done with that, try designing an external hard from the year 2086.  Etc.  Jumping right into a huge build is usually a Herculean task designed to fail.  Vitaly Bulgarov didn't start with the GITS Major body first.

     

    Also - even with precise and mechanical models, you still have to rough it in, get the proportions correct and then fine tune the details.  I see too many people who want it to be perfect right from the beginning and get every nut and bolt and piston, etc in place right out of the gate - without looking at the overall scale and proportions of it.  Think of it like clay, even though it is hard pixels - get the overall form going in the right direction, and then start to sculpt into it.

     

    Here's one of my favorites for inspiration:  

     

     

    And the original piece:

     

    Also like this series:

    http://lesterbanks.com/2017/04/modeling-blast-doors-c4d/

     

    e.

    Vitaly is not human and therefore can't be compared to us mere mortals 

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    bezo    422

    As can we see from example of model

    https://vitalybulgarov.com/3d-kitbash/free-non-subd-trial-part

    Vitaly use boole, tris etc...

    Everything what can make model in render perfect is allowed...

    ...for IQP must be an outlaw not a God :D

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