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Guest TeamZissou

Advice on business card texture

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Guest TeamZissou

Hi Guys,

 

Can anyone advise on how to best approach creating this texture?

I'm a complete C4D novice but I've somehow managed to create a half decent model and I'm now just struggling with this texture a little. 

 

The best way I can describe it is a very low gloss plastic/laminated business card. I've attached two examples. You can see there is a repeating pattern visible, not sure if this is design or just a visible printer ink pattern.

 

I'm using R17.

 

Thanks in advance!

Example.jpg

Example 2.jpg

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I don't think there is any kind of procedural noise that can match this exactly, although something like displaced voronoi might be close enough if you don't get too close to it. But if you do have to go all the way in with your camera then your best bet might be to take a very high resolution top-down photo of the substrate and use that in the color channel instead, or perhaps even make a greyscale version of it to be very subtly applied in the bump channel, where you could tweak delta down to get incredibly fine detail.

 

What remains more of a challenge would be how to get that subtle heliotropic oily type finish we can see in your reference - in R17 I don't think you have the thin film shader which is what I'd try first to get this look. Without that there is probably something you can do with fresnel or spectral to fake this effect.

 

CBR

 

 

 

 

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To add to @Cerbera suggestions, you could as he suggested, take a high resolution photo, then make a seamless pattern using Photoshop (or similar) as it seems like a fairly straight forward repeated pattern. I think you'd only need to recreate a few actual shapes and then repeat. You could then create a type of chromatic aberration effect by offsetting the RGB channels slightly to get the "oily" type finish if you don't have the Film Shader.

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Guest TeamZissou
36 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I don't think there is any kind of procedural noise that can match this exactly, although something like displaced voronoi might be close enough if you don't get too close to it. But if you do have to go all the way in with your camera then your best bet might be to take a very high resolution top-down photo of the substrate and use that in the color channel instead, or perhaps even make a greyscale version of it to be very subtly applied in the bump channel, where you could tweak delta down to get incredibly fine detail.

 

What remains more of a challenge would be how to get that subtle heliotropic oily type finish we can see in your reference - in R17 I don't think you have the thin film shader which is what I'd try first to get this look. Without that there is probably something you can do with fresnel or spectral to fake this effect.

 

CBR

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

Sounds like a plan but unfortunately I don't have access to the product itself so I won't be able to capture it.

I'll take a look at the Voronoi noise and see if it is convincing enough at a distance!

Would I simply add this to my color channel?

 

I did try and get creative with reflection for those oily bits but I struggled to be honest. I'm sure it's just my complete misunderstanding but does enabling reflection disable color? I seem to lose anything I've done in the color channel as soon as I hit reflection.

 

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12 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

Would I simply add this to my color channel?

I think I'd go for the main blue colour in the color channel, then load my noise into the map slot, and try the various blend modes to mix your noise with the colour. I went for displaced voronoi, 1.3 octaves, 5% scale, UV 2D mode, and that got me quite close...

12 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

I'm sure it's just my complete misunderstanding but does enabling reflection disable color?

No, you can use both concurrently, but there are render savings to be had if you can eliminate the colour channel altogether by doing it with a reflectance base layer instead. But here color channel should be just as fine.

 

I got a reasonable result for the oily finish using 2 reflectance layers - the first a very subtle, very rough general phong reflectance layer at 30% level and 60% roughness, dialectric / asphalt fresnel, and then did a GGX layer over the top with a fresnel shader in its color map, which I changed from black to white to the typically oily colours, and applied at only 15% over the top of the other one in add mode.

 

CBR

 

 

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If you're losing color, you need to look at adding Fresnel and/or reduce the Reflection Amount and/or experiment with your Mix Mode.

 

You might also want to look at:

1. Spectral Shader (https://help.MAXON.net/us/#XSPECTRAL). With it you can perhaps emulate the Thin Film Shader with that as well.

2. Adding a Gradient of colors into a Fresnel to emulate the "oily" look and/or reduce transparency to add to current texture.

 

If you don't have access to the actual texture and don't get the result you want from using a Noise of some sort, you could easily recreate a repeating pattern from it by recreating the shapes. I zoomed in on the image you have and there are only a few actual shapes that are then repeated. In fact you could probably use the actual image, manipulate it in Photoshop to get the perspective right and get the pattern directly and/or use the trace function in Illustrator and derive the pattern that way.

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Adding more information. I found this offset print halftone pattern that seems to match the pattern, but obviously requires the color of the actual card mixed in as well.

 

If you're not going to get close enough in to see a printing pattern in your work then I would not go to this much trouble but if you do need closeups, then hopefully this image will come in handy for you as reference to help create the texture you need

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There is a halftone type filter you in photoshop where you can vary the screen angle etc, Filter / pixelate /halftone. Probably a fair few others out there too. Just run your artwork through it before hand.

I wouldn't bother myself as its the print dot, can also cause problems later on when viewing / sizing the image at different resolutions and sizes.

 

My 10pence worth :)

 

Deck

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Guest TeamZissou
11 hours ago, ABMotion said:

If you're losing color, you need to look at adding Fresnel and/or reduce the Reflection Amount and/or experiment with your Mix Mode.

 

You might also want to look at:

1. Spectral Shader (https://help.MAXON.net/us/#XSPECTRAL). With it you can perhaps emulate the Thin Film Shader with that as well.

2. Adding a Gradient of colors into a Fresnel to emulate the "oily" look and/or reduce transparency to add to current texture.

 

If you don't have access to the actual texture and don't get the result you want from using a Noise of some sort, you could easily recreate a repeating pattern from it by recreating the shapes. I zoomed in on the image you have and there are only a few actual shapes that are then repeated. In fact you could probably use the actual image, manipulate it in Photoshop to get the perspective right and get the pattern directly and/or use the trace function in Illustrator and derive the pattern that way.

Fresnel did the trick, thanks! Should you always add Fresnel when enabling Reflection and adding something like Beckmann or GGX?

 

Would I be correct in thinking that the reason my Color channel appears to no longer have an effect when first adding such reflection is because the defaults are all maxed out and thus have the effect of a mirror?

 

Thanks for the Spectral Shader advice, I had a quick look and also found this, maybe something similar but dialled right down would do the trick?

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Guest TeamZissou
11 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I think I'd go for the main blue colour in the color channel, then load my noise into the map slot, and try the various blend modes to mix your noise with the colour. I went for displaced voronoi, 1.3 octaves, 5% scale, UV 2D mode, and that got me quite close...

No, you can use both concurrently, but there are render savings to be had if you can eliminate the colour channel altogether by doing it with a reflectance base layer instead. But here color channel should be just as fine.

 

I got a reasonable result for the oily finish using 2 reflectance layers - the first a very subtle, very rough general phong reflectance layer at 30% level and 60% roughness, dialectric / asphalt fresnel, and then did a GGX layer over the top with a fresnel shader in its color map, which I changed from black to white to the typically oily colours, and applied at only 15% over the top of the other one in add mode.

 

CBR

 

 

Wow, that is very close indeed! I spent hours and didn't get anywhere near. I guess it helps when you know what you're doing!

Thank you, really appreciate the help from everyone here.

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28 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

Fresnel did the trick, thanks! Should you always add Fresnel when enabling Reflection and adding something like Beckmann or GGX?

Most objects in the real world have some level of Fresnel. Read this for an explanation of Fresnel and why you will probably use it for your materials http://www.3drender.com/glossary/fresneleffect.htm

 

29 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

Would I be correct in thinking that the reason my Color channel appears to no longer have an effect when first adding such reflection is because the defaults are all maxed out and thus have the effect of a mirror?

Exactly! :)

 

36 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

Thanks for the Spectral Shader advice, I had a quick look and also found this, maybe something similar but dialled right down would do the trick?

That is an example of how to use the Spectral Shader and will give you a good base to work from. Dialling it down is necessary to take it from the look he creates for purely graphic/motion graphic design to a more real world, subtle effect.

 

Above all, just experiment with all these suggestions people have given you and have fun learning :)

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Guest TeamZissou

Thanks @ABMotion that makes perfect sense now!

 

I am enjoying the process, it's just frustrating when I hit a problem as I'm out of my comfort zone when it comes to most things C4D. Fortunately there are resources like this with some extremely helpful people like yourself!

 

Here's where I'm at so far, I need to work on that texture for macro shots but it's coming along.

 

Is there a way to dial up that specular highlight on the outer edges without effecting the entire surface? Or is this only achieved by carefully placed lights?

 

I've just noticed a slight issue with the noise pattern on those edges too, at first I thought it might be my model but perhaps it is due to the projection or tiling method?

 

 

C.jpg

C1.jpg

C2.jpg

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