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Fastbee

Houdini 16.5 looks amazing

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everfresh    174
1 hour ago, King of Snake said:

 


Now for sure Houdini is the way to go for advanced, organic, procedural kind of animations. Whether those are better than other kinds of motion graphics is totally subjective. One person may prefer a hand-drawn cel-shaded look to some abstract procedurally generated crystal-cauliflower that goes on for two and a half minutes ;)

^^ this.

 

brings me back to the objective: how good is houdini with cel shading? does it provide something like s&t, the ability to create complex cel shading setups, does it have something equivalent to a hatch and a spot shader? if not, can you built something like that in houdini and how hard would that be? i've never seen anything cel shaded made with houdini, although i'm sure it's possible to create cel shaded materials with it.  another question for me would be about it's character rigging tools? anyone ever dabbled with that?

 

 

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nerv    278
3 hours ago, Cutman said:

@nerv I thought better of you but cheers anyway.

Lol. Come on dude. We are all just saying. It’s cool that you’re excited about Houdini. I get excited about learning new tools as well. Just... you know... it’s better to entice other people by highlighting the benefits of product X than to continuously bash them for using product Y.  

 

I’m also saying this as someone who had, briefly, fallen into a similar pattern with regards to Redshift over Octane, etc. You know I’ve become the biggest shill for Redshift here, but I decided to focus on what I like about it and sharing the work I’ve been doing with it, instead of bashing the others. 

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35 minutes ago, VECTOR said:

If this keeps happening threads like this are just going to be locked. There's nothing wrong with healthy debate or comparing features from one software to another, but constantly these topics are just becoming bashing threads for personal insults. @Cutman we're all very aware of your disappointment and frustrations with MAXON and Cinema4D, and while you have made some very valid points to illustrate why you feel that way, your attitude  towards members, and the way you present your opinions are clearly going to rub some people up the wrong way.

 

We are 3D ARTIST, after all, so we should be embracing all the tools and softwares available, that as artist allow us to do and create the things we want, not bashing people because they choose to support a software package that you yourself no longer favour, and should not be made to feel less worthy because of it, You've been giving off a very negative vibe around here for a while now, and no matter how valid your reasons are you need to take responsibility for your actions, this is a C4D community after all, and if you no longer see yourself as a part of that, then that's perfectly fine, but you should respect the people that are, no matter what your personal opinions and feelings towards MAXON and C4D.

 

That's not to say you can't express your opinion, as a community we respect the views and opinions of our members, just maybe you could do it in a way that's not so hostile.

 

V

 

 

@VECTOR I've read some group think tosh in my time and this is right up there. I get it, you want your little C4D safe space preserved even though YOU clicked on a Houdini thread and chose to get offended.

 

It's really sucking hilarious that some of you snowflakes have clicked on a thread clearly titled 'HOUDINI 16.5 LOOKS AMAZING' and were sucking surprised to find it wasn't filled with sycophancy towards C4D.

 

In my original post of this thread I was merely making the point that there are various levels of motion graphics and the aspirational brand films tend to use a VFX toolset. The very high end Mograph studios use techniques more akin to a VFX workflow. There is surely no one here who would disagree with that is there? There's surely no one here who thinks C4D has that toolset is there?

 

It is not my fault some people decided to misinterpret what I wrote, it is THOSE people who continually derail threads because of their own insecurity such that we cannot discuss the relative merits of different software. This happened when Brian Horgan tried to discuss Maya's animation tools and what's wrong with C4D's toolset and how it could be improved. You idiots drove him out because he forced you to take a long hard look at how limited C4D is for character animation and you didn't like what you saw. So blame the messenger you did and you'll keep doing it.

 

I was right to send my comments to Fastbee via PM because even though they were balanced, factual and come from experience I knew the readership of these forums are, in general, not adult enough to deal with the slightest bit of criticism of their beloved C4D. I'm very happy to answer any questions Fastbee has via PM because he is actually interested. There are plenty of users here who could get real benefit from adopting Houdini even if it's just a helper application e.g. you won't find better UV Tools anywhere else but you'd rather bitch and have your C4D safe space than embrace other apps which is sucking ironic.

 

You'll end up with a weaker and weaker community filled with idiots who are happy with the dated tools MAXON deems that are fit for you. Bully for you.

 

Tell me how ProRender is working out for you all?

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VECTOR    393
1 hour ago, Cutman said:

@VECTOR I've read some group think tosh in my time and this is right up there. I get it, you want your little C4D safe space preserved even though YOU clicked on a Houdini thread and chose to get offended.

 

It's really sucking hilarious that some of you snowflakes have clicked on a thread clearly titled 'HOUDINI 16.5 LOOKS AMAZING' and were sucking surprised to find it wasn't filled with sycophancy towards C4D.

 

In my original post of this thread I was merely making the point that there are various levels of motion graphics and the aspirational brand films tend to use a VFX toolset. The very high end Mograph studios use techniques more akin to a VFX workflow. There is surely no one here who would disagree with that is there? There's surely no one here who thinks C4D has that toolset is there?

 

It is not my fault some people decided to misinterpret what I wrote, it is THOSE people who continually derail threads because of their own insecurity such that we cannot discuss the relative merits of different software. This happened when Brian Horgan tried to discuss Maya's animation tools and what's wrong with C4D's toolset and how it could be improved. You idiots drove him out because he forced you to take a long hard look at how limited C4D is for character animation and you didn't like what you saw. So blame the messenger you did and you'll keep doing it.

 

I was right to send my comments to Fastbee via PM because even though they were balanced, factual and come from experience I knew the readership of these forums are, in general, not adult enough to deal with the slightest bit of criticism of their beloved C4D. I'm very happy to answer any questions Fastbee has via PM because he is actually interested. There are plenty of users here who could get real benefit from adopting Houdini even if it's just a helper application e.g. you won't find better UV Tools anywhere else but you'd rather bitch and have your C4D safe space than embrace other apps which is sucking ironic.

 

You'll end up with a weaker and weaker community filled with idiots who are happy with the dated tools MAXON deems that are fit for you. Bully for you.

 

Tell me how ProRender is working out for you all?

See that's the exact attitude i was referring to, clearly you're unable to have an objective conversation without reverting to name calling and arbitrary comments. i'm not offended at all, no one's pretending that c4d is perfect, or that there haven't been shortcomings, or that other packages may have superior features, no one's denying the amount of features improved and new in the .5 release of houdini , compared to the content of full yearly released packages. 

 

It's your attitude towards people that bothers me, and your consistent need to bash anyone with anything remotely positive to say regarding cinema 4d, it's not about having a c4d safe space as you put it, it's about members being able to come on to the community without having to have a consistently negative experience because cutman has decided to go on another one of his rants against MAXON, as frankly it's starting to get old.

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luchifer    34

Various levels of motion graphics? Im eager to know, why Houdini is more "sophisticated" at doing motion graphics?

 

Go back to art school and look for all the different schools of painting, and apply your logic there.. is as if Degas would constantly tell Picasso to stop what he is doing because Realism / Impressionism is more sophisticated while telling their followers their idiots for doing Cubism, or Invader, the french urban artist who spent a lot of money drawing atari space invaders icons all over the world.

 

Im not drawn to Houdini threads... i am drawn to art.. we do art here, call it motion graphics if you want... working with billion particles, or images than move proceduralism isnt better art than working with million particles and limited proceduralism. Composition, color, and the artist hand is what defines "there's motion graphics and there's motion graphics".. not the technical marvel behind, or if the artist / studio knows VEX or MEL or if he spends additional money buying plugins like Insydium, FumeFX, Massive, FaceRobot, etc.

 

"The very high end Mograph studios use techniques more akin to a VFX workflow"... they also choose Maya. Good for them, us freelancers don't. So? You were here for so long, you must know by now C4D is aimed towards solo artists, small studios. Different needs for different markets.
 

Final note, I do think Modo, C4D, Maya are technically behind Houdini / XSI, maybe the difference is like driving a car vs flying a jet. Insecure? No thanks, im pretty confident in my driving skills.

"Tell me how ProRender is working out for you all?" ...Please go to your own forum and tell them their idiots for using Redshift instead of Mantra. Or their idiots for using Zbrush instead of the amazing sculpting tool inside Houdini. And their bigger idiots for using Nuke instead of Houdini compositor. And true morons for dare to use Maya for character animation.

 

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38 minutes ago, VECTOR said:

See that's the exact attitude i was referring to, clearly you're unable to have an objective conversation without reverting to name calling and arbitrary comments. i'm not offended at all, no one's pretending that c4d is perfect, or that there haven't been shortcomings, or that other packages may have superior features, no one's denying the amount of features improved and new in the .5 release of houdini , compared to the content of full yearly released packages. 

 

It's your attitude towards people that bothers me, and your consistent need to bash anyone with anything remotely positive to say regarding cinema 4d, it's not about having a c4d safe space as you put it, it's about members being able to come on to the community without having to have a consistently negative experience because cutman has decided to go on another one of his rants against MAXON, as frankly it's starting to get old.

 

You keep clicking on a thread about Houdini and you keep reading my posts. You seem to be your own worst enemy.

 

My advice would be to stop repeating this mistake.

 

Hey @luchiferI know how to do a few of these shots,

 

 

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VECTOR    393
9 minutes ago, Cutman said:

 

You keep clicking on a thread about Houdini and you keep reading my posts. You seem to be your own worst enemy.

 

My advice would be to stop repeating this mistake.

 

Yes and you continue to visit and be active on a forum for software you no longer use or appreciate, so my advice would be to stop repeating this mistake. i'm sure the forum over on SideFX is great.

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12 minutes ago, luchifer said:

Various levels of motion graphics? Im eager to know, why Houdini is more "sophisticated" at doing motion graphics?

 

Go back to art school and look for all the different schools of painting, and apply your logic there.. is as if Degas would constantly tell Picasso to stop what he is doing because Realism / Impressionism is more sophisticated while telling their followers their idiots for doing Cubism, or Invader, the french urban artist who spent a lot of money drawing atari space invaders icons all over the world.

 

Im not drawn to Houdini threads... i am drawn to art.. we do art here, call it motion graphics if you want... working with billion particles, or images than move proceduralism isnt better art than working with million particles and limited proceduralism. Composition, color, and the artist hand is what defines "there's motion graphics and there's motion graphics".. not the technical marvel behind, or if the artist / studio knows VEX or MEL or if he spends additional money buying plugins like Insydium, FumeFX, Massive, FaceRobot, etc.

 

"The very high end Mograph studios use techniques more akin to a VFX workflow"... they also choose Maya. Good for them, us freelancers don't. So? You were here for so long, you must know by now C4D is aimed towards solo artists, small studios. Different needs for different markets.
 

Final note, I do think Modo, C4D, Maya are technically behind Houdini / XSI, maybe the difference is like driving a car vs flying a jet. Insecure? No thanks, im pretty confident in my driving skills.

"Tell me how ProRender is working out for you all?" ...Please go to your own forum and tell them their idiots for using Redshift instead of Mantra. Or their idiots for using Zbrush instead of the amazing sculpting tool inside Houdini. And their bigger idiots for using Nuke instead of Houdini compositor. And true morons for dare to use Maya for character animation.

 

 

Once again you allow your insecurity to cloud your judgement. You'd absolutely love to think that I don't have a profound knowledge of art and film and love to believe that my interest of Houdini is just my DCC can do more particles than your DCC. Well, let's clear things up. I do have a profound knowledge of art and film and my using of Houdini has nothing to do with cock size.

 

The last paragraph I can see you've gone for broke to prove my ascertains. Well done.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, VECTOR said:

Yes and you continue to visit and be active on a forum for software you no longer use or appreciate, so my advice would be to stop repeating this mistake. i'm sure the forum over on SideFX is great.

 

Wouldn't you just love that? To have and cherish your C4D safe space finally.

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Zmotive    57

Cutman, you know from my posts and interactions with you that I've kept an open mind towards both your Houdini comments here and in general stuff you've debated at other times... but you've got an itchy trigger finger that you seem to be either unaware of or eager to use. If I might:

 

You're absolutely right that some people truly defied their own logic (expressed previously towards you) when they decided to read this thread and post — knowing that they usually disagree with you and that you were going to posit Houdini as an alternative platform to C4D. I mean, did ANYONE really NOT think he was going to do that when they first saw the thread title? I sure did. Doesn't take a fortune-teller to know what's coming. So either you're open to the harsh feedback we knew would be a part of his larger set of points, or you're not. If you're not, either don't read it or don't respond. 

 

On the OTHER HAND...  any software-specific forum is likely to end up a bit of a "safe space" for that software — it's the nature of the beast — people invest a lot of time and money and stick with it so their inclination (as a group) will always be towards the glass is half full. And they won't take well to being told forcefully that their platform sucks (whether it does or not). However, where you go wrong  is less the force of your initial arguments than your temper (IMO).

 

For this thread, you go through all of your points about Houdini (no problem), your related criticisms about C4D (no problem), and your decision to jump ship (no problem). Nothing wrong with a long-time member sharing that info IMO. I'll probably do the same thing if and when I move to another platform, just to let people know what alternative I found and why it was compelling enough to make me bolt. But as soon as someone calls you out for being "tired of your complaints" about C4D, BLAM! You don't just respond in kind, you hammer them. And from there every thread follows the same pattern. The group seems to be drawn to this dysfunctional pattern over and over. I actually found this one kind of amusing because I saw it coming two weeks and many miles away.

 

But typically none of us (yourself included) enjoy this type of outcome, so my unsolicited and possibly useless advice is to avoid the urge to put people in their place via sledgehammer. Whether they deserve it or not is another question, but ultimately it doesn't matter — it's not the kind of medium where putting someone in their place actually teaches them something, thus altering their behavior... instead it just builds animosity / passive aggression over time.

 

But to get back to it, not only was I curious to read your Houdini experiences but I hope in a few months after you've used it some more and see the product more fully — warts and all — that you'll post more observations good and bad and how you're feeling about the switch. As long as its done dispassionately (including any responses to challenges), it can be useful to everyone. Hell, it might even be useful to MAXON.

 

 

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arail    22

I have some interest in Houdini and would like to more about it but whenever there's a Houdini thread, I just skim the first couple of lines of every post and don't bother to drill down to the details because Houdini threads always become .... like this.

 

Redshift threads, Octane threads, Corona threads - I always learn something new. But Houdini threads are like wandering out on a battlefield, trying to dodge the cross fire.

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