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Dannyx

Help with normals

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  • Yes I do, but I'm still considering whether it's worth the headache....

     

    Had a mess around myself and I think I may be on to something, but I won't know until I see it being done.

     

    It's part of a file which contains various other f-ups, so I copied just the object in question into a new file - hope that didn't affect anything.....

    Cyl.c4d

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    Well, in the version you sent through (isolated part fine btw), the normals were correct ! :)

     

    However, I found other problems with this mesh - there are internal faces which you need to remove, but to be honest the topology you have is so divergent from what is ideal that you might as well start again.

     

    Knowing that you want to try these things yourself, I won't upload the scene file, but I will show you this, which demonstrates what the topology for this shape should look like, and you can try on your own, and come back to me asking for more detailed instructions if you get stuck...

     

    Here's my version, viewed from above and below - note how my nice even loops go all the way round the model...

     

    cuts.thumb.jpg.821ccb7040d466bf1878fdff4aebf58d.jpg

     

    CBR

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    1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

    OK, I'll try and explain it with words, although you are making my job harder by not giving me the file to demonstrate on.

     

    Edge loops need to go all the way round the model, so every time you have a loop that stops (and you have loads), you have to manually connect it all the way round with the knife tool in line mode.

     

    CBR

    Somethimes the knife tool dont work as expected, and then i prefer using the polygon tool 

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    2 minutes ago, LightinaBox said:

    Sometimes the knife tool doesn't work as expected, and then I prefer using the polygon tool 

    No, the knife tool always works as expected if your topology is correct ;)

     

    CBR

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    It can be a glitch, in R17 it works perfectly, but in R18 the knife tool ocasionally corrupt the mesh (Phong problems and dark polygons)

     

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    16 minutes ago, LightinaBox said:

    It can be a glitch, in R17 it works perfectly, but in R18 the knife tool ocasionally corrupt the mesh (Phong problems and dark polygons)

     

    This is true between 18.11 and 18.48. All knife tool bugs are fixed in 18.57. However OP is using R15, in which knife tools work fine.


    CBR

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    You don't say whether you're using this with Subdivision (Hypernurbs), but if you are you will need to add the highlighted loop cuts as well to support the form.

     

    Left is the additional edge loops required, right is subdivided result.

     

    cuts2.thumb.jpg.4b85a75e1ec8971cf3e05b3e7ad22b26.jpg

     

    You'll notice I also used symmetry here so I only had to do half the work, but this is not essential.

     

    CBR

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  • 17 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    Well, in the version you sent through (isolated part fine btw), the normals were correct ! :)

    Yes, I know, at first glance it looks perfect: the whole object is yellow (if that's what you mean by "correct normals"). I saved it after I somehow got all the faces to "face the same way" and be all yellow as I like to say, but I'm sure you noticed that as soon as you try to bevel the thing, one of the sides just snaps back to being blue

    18 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    I found other problems with this mesh - there are internal faces which you need to remove, but to be honest the topology you have is so divergent from what is ideal that you might as well start again.

    Yes, there are obviously many things wrong with it, so yes, I did consider starting from scratch which is what I'll probably end up doing anyway.

     

    Now about the shape you pictured, couple of things I want to know: is the one you created obtained and recovered from what I sent you or is a fresh object created from scratch ? This is so I don't struggle like a moron with the existing model when in reality it should be done from scratch (which is what I'll do anyhow)....

     

    Secondly, that's the shape I had in mind too originally and although it seemed like a simple task in my head, I couldn't find a straightforward way to do it, so I made a thing that LOOKED like it, but wasn't actually IT.

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    16 minutes ago, Dannyx said:

    Yes, there are obviously many things wrong with it, so yes, I did consider starting from scratch which is what I'll probably end up doing anyway

    It is those internal faces that are breaking the beveling. If you delete or hide the big square polys at the front of the model you will reveal them.

    These sort of mistakes are most often caused by extruding with caps left on, when they should be off, which creates these internal walls that break your model.

     

    But I would start again anyway. I made mine from scratch using your original as just a visual guide. So start with a tube primitive and extrude (no caps) or scale out faces from there to get the topology I showed you on Page 1. 

     

    CBR

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  • I'll play around tomorrow since now I'm no longer at my workstation.

    I always forget about the caps thing and it has screwed me over at one point before, so I can see part of the issue now.

     

    I can't precisely remember the steps I did to obtain that rough object, but what I DO know is it took a very long time, it seemed very hard and was done unprofessionally - it even FELT like something was not right there :)) The biggest challenge was getting a round object to flatten at one end and I tried it in MANY ways and messed around with a lot of things, but I guess that's all part of the learning process, so I can't complain....cheers and thanks for your continued support - will keep you posted.

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