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LightinaBox    2
1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

OK, I'll try and explain it with words, although you are making my job harder by not giving me the file to demonstrate on.

 

Edge loops need to go all the way round the model, so every time you have a loop that stops (and you have loads), you have to manually connect it all the way round with the knife tool in line mode.

 

CBR

Somethimes the knife tool dont work as expected, and then i prefer using the polygon tool 

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Cerbera    1,385
2 minutes ago, LightinaBox said:

Sometimes the knife tool doesn't work as expected, and then I prefer using the polygon tool 

No, the knife tool always works as expected if your topology is correct ;)

 

CBR

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LightinaBox    2

It can be a glitch, in R17 it works perfectly, but in R18 the knife tool ocasionally corrupt the mesh (Phong problems and dark polygons)

 

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Cerbera    1,385
16 minutes ago, LightinaBox said:

It can be a glitch, in R17 it works perfectly, but in R18 the knife tool ocasionally corrupt the mesh (Phong problems and dark polygons)

 

This is true between 18.11 and 18.48. All knife tool bugs are fixed in 18.57. However OP is using R15, in which knife tools work fine.


CBR

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Cerbera    1,385

You don't say whether you're using this with Subdivision (Hypernurbs), but if you are you will need to add the highlighted loop cuts as well to support the form.

 

Left is the additional edge loops required, right is subdivided result.

 

cuts2.thumb.jpg.4b85a75e1ec8971cf3e05b3e7ad22b26.jpg

 

You'll notice I also used symmetry here so I only had to do half the work, but this is not essential.

 

CBR

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Dannyx    0
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  • 17 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    Well, in the version you sent through (isolated part fine btw), the normals were correct ! :)

    Yes, I know, at first glance it looks perfect: the whole object is yellow (if that's what you mean by "correct normals"). I saved it after I somehow got all the faces to "face the same way" and be all yellow as I like to say, but I'm sure you noticed that as soon as you try to bevel the thing, one of the sides just snaps back to being blue

    18 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    I found other problems with this mesh - there are internal faces which you need to remove, but to be honest the topology you have is so divergent from what is ideal that you might as well start again.

    Yes, there are obviously many things wrong with it, so yes, I did consider starting from scratch which is what I'll probably end up doing anyway.

     

    Now about the shape you pictured, couple of things I want to know: is the one you created obtained and recovered from what I sent you or is a fresh object created from scratch ? This is so I don't struggle like a moron with the existing model when in reality it should be done from scratch (which is what I'll do anyhow)....

     

    Secondly, that's the shape I had in mind too originally and although it seemed like a simple task in my head, I couldn't find a straightforward way to do it, so I made a thing that LOOKED like it, but wasn't actually IT.

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    Cerbera    1,385
    16 minutes ago, Dannyx said:

    Yes, there are obviously many things wrong with it, so yes, I did consider starting from scratch which is what I'll probably end up doing anyway

    It is those internal faces that are breaking the beveling. If you delete or hide the big square polys at the front of the model you will reveal them.

    These sort of mistakes are most often caused by extruding with caps left on, when they should be off, which creates these internal walls that break your model.

     

    But I would start again anyway. I made mine from scratch using your original as just a visual guide. So start with a tube primitive and extrude (no caps) or scale out faces from there to get the topology I showed you on Page 1. 

     

    CBR

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    Dannyx    0
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  • I'll play around tomorrow since now I'm no longer at my workstation.

    I always forget about the caps thing and it has screwed me over at one point before, so I can see part of the issue now.

     

    I can't precisely remember the steps I did to obtain that rough object, but what I DO know is it took a very long time, it seemed very hard and was done unprofessionally - it even FELT like something was not right there :)) The biggest challenge was getting a round object to flatten at one end and I tried it in MANY ways and messed around with a lot of things, but I guess that's all part of the learning process, so I can't complain....cheers and thanks for your continued support - will keep you posted.

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    Cerbera    1,385
    3 hours ago, Dannyx said:

    The biggest challenge was getting a round object to flatten at one end and I tried it in MANY ways and messed around with a lot of things, but I guess that's all part of the learning process, so I can't complain....cheers and thanks for your continued support - will keep you posted.

    You're welcome....

     

    To flatten a round set of edges you just have to select them scale to 0 on the correct axis, either with the scale tool (holding shift to quantize) or zero it out directly in the coordinates manager...

     

    CBR

     

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    Cerbera    1,385

    I know this isn't the exact shape you need, but I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I'd like to get across a primary modelling principle to show you that you don't need anywhere near as much geometry in this sort of shape as you started with here...

     

    Problem.png

     

    The modelling principal that I mean consists of using the lowest possible amount of polygons to describe any particular shape, and using and controlling subdivision surfaces (still called Hypernurbs in your version) so that roundness is added where we need it, and not where we don't.

     

    In the above, you started with a 36 segment tube, but you can actually get away with much less than that if you use Subdivision Surface modelling.

    Here's how you would make this shape in an optimal and ultimately efficient way, both polygon and time-wise.

     

    From left to right, down the rows...

     

    5a4aef31389e9_sdsmodelling.thumb.jpg.ceece16117d4538f1d3cfeec17245a8f.jpg

     

    1. Get a disc, give it 10 segments and a suitable inner radius, make editable, polygon mode, delete left half of the model, points mode, optimize and place under symmetry to restore the full circle. Now we only have to work on one half of it.

    2. Edge mode, select the lowest 3 outer edges, change modelling axis to 'Object', hold ctrl, and scale these edges out.

    3. Go to an orthographic view, put modelling axis back to 'Selected', and move the points as shown to make the general shape.

    4. Select all the lower edges and ctrl-drag down 3 times as shown to extrude them.

    5. Adjust points further to match reference, and to reinforce the corners, which is why we need to move the bottom ones outwards.

    6. Now we need to add some control edge loops to tighten up the areas we want to be sharp, so use knife tool in loop mode to add these loops.

    7. To give it depth we just need to select all polygons, and extrude, with caps. If you extrude up the normals will be right, if you extrude down they will be wrong, and you'll need to reverse them (which will work because your topology is great !)

    8. Add final control loops on inside and outside (again knife tool , loop mode).

    9. Place under Hypernurbs and give it Level 3 subdivision in the options.

     

    And there is that shape made with a very minimal, nicely controllable amount of polys, and it's 100% quads.

    Hopefully you can apply this technique to the actual shapes you need for the project.

     

    CBR

     

     

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    Dannyx    0
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  • That's nice. I seem to be having trouble with the basics, since it's the first steps in your design that went over my head, whereas the latter ones were more familiar funnily enough...will give it a shot, more to learn stuff than anything.

     

    I'd like to keep this discussion open for now, because there's one more thing I want to do to that thing further down the line once I actually get it done.

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    Dannyx    0
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  • Ok, let's do this ! Ran into some problems because I'm still learning my way around C4D and don't know how to do certain things.

     

    14 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    optimize and place under symmetry (clamp points on axis, delete polys on axis both ticked) to restore the full circle

    Don't know how to do that (the symmetry thing, since I know where optimize is). I must also question why I need to do that to restore a circle that's already there. Again, this may be really stupid and daunting to ask, but that's the point of the whole discussion. I need to do something once and then I'll remember it.

     

    15 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    Edge mode, select the lowest 3 outer edges, change modelling axis to 'Object', hold ctrl, and scale these edges out.

    This is because I couldn't get the first step right, but 3 edges ? Isn't it 5 edges ? I got the shape right shown in your second step, but by scaling 5 edges. I can now see why you did that extra first step, since I couldn't understand why and in what direction to "slice" the thing, since there's no axis in your snapshot to know which way is X/Y.

     

    14 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    Go to an orthographic view, put modelling axis back to 'Selected', and move the points as shown to make the general shape

    Assuming I got to this step, is there an "automatic" way to make the points follow a straight line like that together at once, or do I need to grab each one individually and align them ? I know there's the snap to grid option, but that's probably not it. I WAS able to get that shape by aligning them individually, but it takes a bit too much to be the ideal solution, so I'm pretty sure it's not it.

     

    That's it for now, since if I carry on, I'd ran into the same issue of creating something that LOOKS like it, but is not actually it. The following steps seem a bit more familiar, so let's get the first part right and then I'll tackle those. Cheers.

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