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CGIHercules

Making anim. short, topology questions ?

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CGIHercules    16

Hi guys, I am trying to learn all I can that it takes to make an animated short and the best way to go about it is I guess to go and try to make one. I am taking it really seriously though and I do this 10 hours a day as I really wanna get good at it. So it’s not like I wanna waste your or my time asking you questions on this forum here. And btw this forum blows out of the water any other, ZBrush, Maya, Simply Maya, CGI whatever…this is THE place to learn so thank you all for that.

 

As of now I will be focusing on making something that I can probably be able to tackle in a span of 5 months I guess. Simple short movie (like 3 to 5 min), 2 to 4 characters, simple modeling and everything pretty basic but appealing. Like TOY STORY 1 modeling rather than some crazy detailed work.
I will be using ZBrush for character modeling, MAYA for UV’s and C4D for pretty much everything else. Yesterday I purchased TOPOGUN that will help me with creating animation friendly topology as we all know that Zbrush spits out unsuable, super dense, high resolution models with crazy topology.

 

 Now my very first question is , when making a character for animation, what happens with the eyes, eye lids and mouth ? Here is my first model. In ZBrush I left dents for eyes and dent in his mouth. He is a squirell so he will have like 1 tooth and wont open mouth much anyway but he will need to blink obviously and move his eyes :)

 

What do you guys think about topology so far ? Face topology and general flow, loops ?

 

I really need some input at this stage. He went from few million polys to under 1200 polys (without a tail). I hope he will end up under 2000 for the final mesh for the animation. You can see when smoothed in TOPOGUN that pretty much stays true to it’s Zbrush form.

Let me know what do you think if this topology is goning to work for animation purposes and how do I handle eyes, eye lids, blinking and such.

 

Thank you all, any constructive input much appreciated.

zbrush.png2.png3.png

Screen Shot 2018-01-07 at 12.49.46 PM.png1.png

topo1.png

topo0.png

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Cerbera    1,922

Yep this is, in the main, pretty much fine apart from the legs, which don't have enough loops round the knees, and the horribleness going on at back of the eye sockets. Of course it doesn't matter as you won't see it, but there is no reason for triangles there.

 

And that is a lot of loops around mouth - even though you do need more detail there, I don't think you need quite that much, and could possibly delete 2 of them. I'm not entirely convinced about the wisdom of running those loops over the nose either, but that will be less problematic if there are less of them.

 

Also, and I don't know how important this is to you, but at the moment the topology on the arms doesn't match his muscle curvature, something that would become important if you tried to jiggle them later as he moved.

 

I like him though :)

 

CBR

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Rectro    663

Hi

 

I can see your dedicated, and have already made improvements.  Watch the spans that are elongated rectangular polygons, try to keep them more square, and Im talking more in areas for deformation around the mouth.  The pol in the centre of the head is typical of zbrush, it will cause havoc for face deformations and can show as a star like dip when the mesh is smooth.

 

Try to keep it 100% symmetrical when rigging, and to the correct scale which I hope you have done before sculpting.  You can add asymmetry later on with pose morphs.

 

Dan

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Rectro    663
6 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

And that is a lot of loops around mouth - even though you do need more detail there, I don't think you need quite that much, and could possibly delete 2 of them.

Yes removing some loops would deal with the issue of rectangle polygons around the mouth.  In fact on all areas that have these rectangle polygons he could well remove them all and sub d the whole mesh once giving a more consistent poly distribution.

 

Dan

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CGIHercules    16
  • Topic Author
  • You guys are amazing. Thanks for the input.

     

    @Cerbera I agree, inside of his eye sockets is absolute chaos even though I can proudly state that nowhere on his body did I allow even 1 N-GON and no TRIANGLES neither :) Only in his mouth I allowed it to happen since I really got tangled up and ReTopologizing a mesh is a major struggle for me for now. It takes me days (and I am not proud of that especially since I am dealing with super simple shape here). But I might as well put more work in now than later when I try to smooth and rig the mesh so I have to go back to retopo phase.

    Not sure how much advanced effects as jiggling will occur :) I just want him to be able to move without breaing apart or deforming.

    I will take your's and DAN'S advice and remove some of the uneccessary mouth edge loops. as well as arm muscle loops and update you once I think it's ok.

     

    P.S. What kind of arm loops would you suggest me putting in there ?

     

    @Rectro Yes I weas majorly determined to give him enough geometry in the face especially since it's so cartoony so big face deformations are expected from him. Tried to do loops around eyes, mouth and nose as those will be deformed the most but I will gladly remove some if you think it's uneccessary. Also as far as pole goes I never know is it better to have a stripe of polys run down the middle of the character or a straight like ( 2 poly strips on each side). And also that causes a pole.

    I am really bad at retopologizing but I practice a lot with these simple characters and I guess this project will be my learning curve.

    I will try to simplify his face and update you on this same thread.

    Thank you so much.

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    Rectro    663

    I got away with basic blend shapes at this level of topology, its by far not my best but it rigged find and deformed how I expected it to.

     

    https://imgur.com/4d8WGam

     

    Dan

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    CGIHercules    16
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  • 2 minutes ago, Rectro said:

    I got away with basic blend shapes at this level of topology, its by far not my best but it rigged find and deformed how I expected it to.

     

    https://imgur.com/4d8WGam

     

    Dan

    Wow Dan. that's pretty much all I need for now. I gotta learn about blend shapes when it come to animation :)

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    CGIHercules    16
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  • I re did his head with hopefully less unecessary loops and no poles on his face. No triangles no ngons and no long quads. However I still have poles somewhere around the back side of the shoulders and I really don't know how to avoid them. I am just bad at topology this is the best I can do for now :(

    111.png

    22.png

    33.png

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    Rectro    663

    Much, much better.  If you where to try and follow the sculpting form even more you wont need any displacement maps at all.

     

    What I do is first put the animation topology in for high priority, then work around that to get the edge flow to follow the sculpting forms secondary.  If you get it right your not need any displacement map.

     

    So Priority is loops for animation, then form retaining loops.  The edge for the inner and outer of the eyes are your folding edges.  Iv got a very good book, will try to find it and report back, its all about animation topology.

     

    Dan

    topo form.jpg

    topo priority.jpg

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    CGIHercules    16
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  • 13 minutes ago, Rectro said:

    Much, much better.  If you where to try and follow the sculpting form even more you wont need any displacement maps at all.

     

    What I do is first put the animation topology in for high priority, then work around that to get the edge flow to follow the sculpting forms secondary.  If you get it right your not need any displacement map.

     

    So Priority

     

    Dan

    topo form.jpg

    topo priority.jpg

     

     

    I see, well for this kinf of character with almost no detail I believe I can get away withou maps and stuff but in case of more complexx stuff I think I would still need maps. Also C4D doesnt have that "smoothing trick" like Maya, like a preview button so in oprder for cinema not to render it out like a boxy model I dop need some sort of maps right ?

     

     

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    ABMotion    238

    Just want to give you all a thumbs up in writing, both for @CGIHercules willingness and patience to learn and get it right, and to @Rectro and @Cerbera for doing what they do with patience and passing on their knowledge in the clear way they do.

     

    Noticed over many posts of course, but thought I'd post this here. Hope you don't mind me butting in.

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    Rectro    663
    41 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

     

     

    I see, well for this kinf of character with almost no detail I believe I can get away withou maps and stuff but in case of more complexx stuff I think I would still need maps. Also C4D doesnt have that "smoothing trick" like Maya, like a preview button so in oprder for cinema not to render it out like a boxy model I dop need some sort of maps right ?

     

     

    Please explain what the smooth trick, maybe C4D has another simular thing.  Also the Delta Mush plugin is a nice way to get fast results, its in Maya and with the plugin for c4d its the same thing.  The smooth deformer has a close effect later on when it comes to weighting.

     

    The book I was thinking of was the art of moving points, and Stop Stearing.  Iv lost it and been wanting to look at it recently, its  refined a few things I was doing not so well.

     

    http://hippydrome.com/Sketches.html

    https://vimeo.com/hippydrome

    http://www.hippydrome.com/

    http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470609907,miniSiteCd-SYBEX.html

     

     

     

    Dan

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