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CGIHercules

Making anim. short, topology questions ?

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So, is this animatable ? No tries and N-Gons as far as I know and computer can find. Sits at around 1450 faces which makes it, I don't know I guess lighter model by today's standards. Smooths and subdivides well (which I guess mean might work for animation). I tried to have same size quads everywhere and of course loops around eyes, mouth, ears, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, neck and root of the tail...well , all the places I expect him to twist or wiggle in.

Palm of hand topology...Ughhhhh....I really don't know what to say there I have done the palm must be 40 times (no joke) at this point and as of now I can't do better. My skill just does not allow me. They smooth well but how they rig.... we will see.
If by you this is a "green light" I would proceed with the only other character I have and than I will upload his topology here too.

 

Thank you everyone, you are TRAMENDEOS help !

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Hands, Feet, Ears I wont bother retopo, it just takes too long, I prefer to model these things.  For hands you need to have a bit of Anatomy understanding.  Loops around the base of the thumb, each phalanx joint segment slightly open at the nuckel, closer together underneith to form the crease.  The hands them self are a project in of them self.

 

Iv added my own study sheet which will help you decide where the edge loops need to be, you can just choose the basic needed ones adapted to your own needs.

 

Iv added a draw over of your new version.  You have lost the edge that divides the upper and lower, inner and outer eye.  This edge gives the eyes a folding point.  The Wrist needs a clean set of loops at the articulation point. If you wanted to do things in a better learning order learn the basic anatomy of a hand like the length of each finger and each nuckle, once you got this then your making a educated decision on how your stylising it based on some realistic deformations.  Then with that knowledge sculpt a few hands, then Go in and model a hand from scratch.  

 

PS: Here is a video tutorial I did for this Cafe a while back.

 

Dan

week 6 Hands.jpg

eyes and hands.jpg

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@Rectro I need to watch your video carefully now. I did do what you told me (well at least attempted to carry on the task) and made some changes to the model.

This is all very excruciating but I know necessary and great learning curve (steeeep one).

 

Untitled.001.jpeg

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@Rectro As far as eyelids, I never asked you...how is that done ? Is that a separate piece or should it be a part of the model ? I don't know I just have eye sockets and that's all. The only thing that I will add will be a TOOTH (different material obviously) as well as 2 spheres for eyes (also different material) but I never thought about eyelids.

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4 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

@Rectro I need to watch your video carefully now. I did do what you told me (well at least attempted to carry on the task) and made some changes to the model.

This is all very excruciating but I know necessary and great learning curve (steeeep one).

 

Untitled.001.jpeg

As your becoming more aware of the process you know that there is no such thing as a "simple character" in the terms of how much work is involved.  Its more excruciating if you get spoilt first with the likes of Zbrush, it appears to gets to there very fast but not complete, and modeling knowledge is needed which ever way you go about it.  Ears, Hands, and Feet are modeleing sessions in their own right, and the head most certainly is.  I think you should be pleased with your efforts, its no easy task as it involves loads of skill sets to complete a animated ready character so dont worry if its takes days, even a couple of weeks.

 

When you add the extra loops you dont need for them to be so close together.  Thing of the loops this way.  The middle loop is the folding line, and the loop either side is a structure supporting loop.  You can get even better deformation using triangles at the back of limbs for low poly characters, and it seems many are doing this.  Its like alot of things, we can break down a task into tiny steps which makes it seem very complex, but once we get the basic priciples down we start to use our own intuition, and experience, and most of this stuff is about problem solving which is why tutorials can only take someone so far as the whole process is so not linear, a good 3D artist needs to be adaptive.  Your gain allot from doing this project.

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54 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

@Rectro As far as eyelids, I never asked you...how is that done ? Is that a separate piece or should it be a part of the model ? I don't know I just have eye sockets and that's all. The only thing that I will add will be a TOOTH (different material obviously) as well as 2 spheres for eyes (also different material) but I never thought about eyelids.

The eyes should be made separate.  Now making eyes can be very simple balls with a texture on it, or made as a two layer, or 3 layer method.  The layer methods always give best results as it uses refraction and reflection.  The eyes should be made during the modelling process to help you fit the eye lids to the eye geometry.  The Eyes can be made either as a  whole sphere, or half.  If you go for half make sure the pivot point is at the back centre of the eye.   The eyes are a separate modelling process and need their own level of detail and attention.

 

When I make teeth I make them as two seperate peices of geometry upper and lower teeth.  Eyes are made seperately.  What I do is duplicate the left single eye in Zbrush and mirror it over, its faster doing it there.  Make sure you keep the eyes seperate when going to rig them.

 

Il add some pics.

 

Dan

eyes two shell.jpg

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My workflow In Zbrush modify  the lids to fit the a single eye, then duplicate and mirror, done.  I am aware you can use the mirror tool in C4D which is faster but I often use the sculpting tools in Zbrush to get the lids to fit the eyes.

 

 

eye mirror in zbrush.jpg

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@Rectro I agree on all of it. It's one thing to watch tutorials (that I do every single day) but jumping in the fire and actually facing these problems is totally different ball game and ACTUALLY teaches you THE MOST. That's why even though I know I bit on more than I can chew I think this project will force me into dealing with stuff I never wanted to deal before and make me learn correct ways of doing things.

I do exact same technique in Zbrush with DUPLICATE object + MIRROR on the X axis for perfectly symmetrical copy. So I was gonna go the same way about eyes. I would go with a whole sphere with a slightly protruded iris and for eye lids I was gonna do HALF OF A SPHERE cut in half and than in half again. So second cutting would make them be splitting down the middle like our eye lids do. Also I would peform BOOLEAN in ZBrush with eye cutting in the eye lid sphere to make a space for eye geometry and than I would retopo it both so they have correct quad only geometry.

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2 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

Also I would peform BOOLEAN in ZBrush with eye cutting in the eye lid sphere to make a space for eye geometry and than I would retopo it both so they have correct quad only geometry.

Thats a good idea, iv not used the boolean in Zbrush yet, not used half the new features to be honnest.

 

Dan

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24 minutes ago, Rectro said:

Thats a good idea, iv not used the boolean in Zbrush yet, not used half the new features to be honnest.

 

Dan

It's pretty cool and somewhat simple but also much like in any other program it will leave you with a messy geometry except that in ZBrush you can Zremesh it in a click of a button and get it to be guads only. And since eye lid in my case wont really deform just rotate (pivot) I don't have to be super precise obsessed with best possible geometry. They will be small and half hidden anyway and just rotating like revolving doors.

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