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CGIHercules

Creating "IN SCALE" vs. Scaling post cre

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CGIHercules    16

Title is pretty much my question. Meaning I heard this phrase a lot of time but wasnt sure if it applies to anyone who , as an end product , will not have to combine live action with 3D.

 In the other words it will all be CGI generated. I noticed that I made a model that C4D reports to be 4cm in height. Which is just a little squirell but even if i made a building at this size and than scale it post making it to fit my world how would that change anything?

Is there any difference? ( i consider i didnt apply textures that would obviousmy strech in that case).

Thank you

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Cerbera    1,384

Just the 2 duplicates today then ? ;)

 

No, the size you model at doesn't make any difference - you can always scale it later. If you rig at the wrong size that can cause problems, but none insurmountable. However, if you follow a general rule that you will model to real-world scale, which, let's face it, is hardly any more effort than not doing so, then everything will end up the right size with everything else.

 

Couple of exceptions to that. Physical sky and especially IES lighting in Cinema does behave differently at very small or very large scales. Again, modelling to real-world stops that being an issue. Dynamics and cloth on the other hand, like to work best at Cinema's 'default' sizes, and can actually go wrong if the scales are too far off.

 

CBR

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CGIHercules    16
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  • @Cerbera I am so sorry. I used my phone to post and it reported it didnt go through first time. My bad. 

    And thank you for clarifying that for me. Nothing is rigged yet but what is Cinemas DEFAULT size ?

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    Cerbera    1,384
    27 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

    what is Cinema's DEFAULT size ?

    Well the concept is slightly abstract, because of course people change the units all over the place, but generally speaking, the default range is between a default sphere and a default plane - so 100 to 1000 'whatever units you have chosen' ! I work in centimeters, and always get nice dynamic results if I keep sizes within that sort of range.

     

    On reflection, I am going to add my earlier advice, and raise a 4th point - the default ranges of various modelling tools - these too are faster and easier to use at default scale. So, if you are modelling a life-size diamond ring, you'd have an easier time of it if you made it 200 cm wide while modelling, and then scaled it down when finished. Otherwise, you'd find yourself constantly reducing distance settings in all the tools, soft selection being perhaps the most notable example of this.

     

    The important thing is that it ends up at real-world scale, and you should do this right at the end just after you have moved the group null down to the base of the model. Now the scaling you subsequently do works from the floor up, and you don't have to adjust its Y position as you scale.

     

    CBR

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    Rectro    556

    Just to add as I know you use Zbrush in your pipeline that Zbrush does not take it too kindly when you scale after you have sculpted multiple sub d levels.  Also the strength of the displacement map is generated based on the scale, and Zbrush default Unit is in Meters, where as C4D is cm.  If there is two things that I do to save myself alot of problems, and that is scale real world before I start sculpting, or as early as possible, and check it is 100% symmetrical in Zero world space.

     

    What I do is if Iv taken the workflow where iv sculpted first in Zbrush for my base, id not go too far with my sculpting.  Id then loose all sub d levels, send it over to C4D rescale it, retopo it, then send both over to Zbrush Sub D the retopo version, project base details, then start sculpting on that mesh.  The link between Zbrush and C4D will scale correctly.  There is a bug with Goz where you need to make sure Zbrush allows the mesh from C4D into Zbrush as a fresh new mesh and not try to update the larger old one, for that you need a script.

     

     

    This is made by this guy.  www.jonathankemp.info

    Info found from this thread. 

     

    Dan

    Reset_GoZ_ID.CSC.zip

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    ABMotion    167
    2 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    So, if you are modelling a life-size diamond ring, you'd have an easier time of it if you made it 200 cm wide while modelling, and then scaled it down when finished.

    To work in real-world scale nicely for projects like modeling a diamond ring without scaling down afterwards, you can go into Preferences (Ctrl(Cmd)+E)>Units and change Unit Display to Millimeters and then in Project Settings (Ctrl(Cmd)+D) under Project Settings tab, change Project Scale to 0.01mm (as an example). Now all default objects are introduced at scale. i.e. A cube is now 2cm, not 200cm. You can adjust Project Scale number to suit your purposes.

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    Cerbera    1,384
    1 minute ago, ABMotion said:

    To work in real-world scale nicely for projects like modeling a diamond ring without scaling down afterwards, you can go into Preferences (Ctrl(Cmd)+E)>Units and change Unit Display to Millimeters and then in Project Settings (Ctrl(Cmd)+D) under Project Settings tab, change Project Scale to 0.01mm (as an example). Now all default objects are introduced at scale. i.e. A cube is now 2cm, not 200cm. You can adjust Project Scale number to suit your purposes.

    Good point - I should have mentioned project scale :) Ah the joy of the hive mind...

     

    CBR

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    ABMotion    167
    2 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    hive mind...

    Collective intelligence :) The premise of this forum in a lot of ways...

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    Rectro    556

    @ABMotion  Your post reminds me, If I have multiple sub tools in the scene and know how tall the charatcer should be say 162cm Y axis but its 142000cm  I use the Project scale command.

     

    Dan

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    ABMotion    167
    8 minutes ago, Rectro said:

    charatcer should be say 162cm Y axis but its 142000cm  I use the Project scale command.

    Yes, Ctrl(Cmd)+D, then under Project Settings, there is a Scale Project... button. You can scale from there using .00115 Centimeters in your case.

     

    Scale_Project.thumb.png.58aa4ab3299acc538cb05b4aaf97984d.png

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    CGIHercules    16
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  • I finally got to read all of this. Great tips.

    @Cerbera Yes one thing I like about C4D is that it's letting me know objects dimensions once I select it. The thing with Zbrush is you start with let's say a sphere that seems to be occupying about 50 percent of your current viewport and you think you got yourself a nice sizable object but once I exported my character to C4D it reported it being 4 cm and I was like "well he IS a squirell in this case but not a BUG" :) so still kind of on a small side. Now with having your and @ABMotion tip to scale up or down the whole project in Preferences gives me a chance to remedy this issues.

    I gotta say @Rectro you saying that Zbrush counts in meters and C4D in centimeters makes a lot of sense because it's all virtual space and what it looks like to me while modeling doesn't mean that it's of any significant size. I do exact same thing like you said, I use sculpt just as a base mesh that I will retopo on top of and than scale it up in C4D and after I will either transfer details of sculpt again and bake maps once I know it's symmetrical in the 0 World Space and than it's all good.

    But I know that real world scale matters a lot more if you're working with live action footage.

    Alsop @Cerbera is there any advantage of putting objects in a NULL and scaling NULL and than taking them out of it versus just scaling objects on their own ?

    I think in Maya somebody said that Maya's algoruthm would work better if objects are in the GROUP (NULL) than just scaling group of individually selected objects.

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    Cerbera    1,384
    3 minutes ago, CGIHercules said:

    is there any advantage of putting objects in a NULL and scaling NULL and than taking them out of it versus just scaling objects on their own ?

    Yes. You only have to scale once ! But no other advantages (or disadvantages).

     

    CBR

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