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BIgor

Fantasy House in Arnold

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BIgor    8

Ok so I followed a Tutorial and made this house model, then I edited it a little and made Arnold Materials for it, used Forester to add the tree and the grass. Made a Night and Day Scene. What do you think? 
P.S. This is the Tutorial I followed I highly recommend it for beginners, you can learn some great stuff here: 

 

 

8.png

9.png

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everfresh    301

nice work. lighting wise both are a little bit dark and undefined. try to get some more contrast in there. the grass looks a bit unnaturally distributed.

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Cerbera    1,919

I suspect there are some topology, phong shading and texture mapping problems with the house, as I can see multiple shading artefacts and material mapping errors there. If you upload the wires / clay shaded model we can advise further on the former 2...

 

The latter can probably be fixed by changing the mapping mode to cubic, or, if that's not working, in a more superior way by actually UV unwrapping the object.

 

CBR

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BIgor    8
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  • 4 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    I suspect there are some topology, phong shading and texture mapping problems with the house, as I can see multiple shading artefacts and material mapping errors there. If you upload the wires / clay shaded model we can advise further on the former 2...

     

    The latter can probably be fixed by changing the mapping mode to cubic, or, if that's not working, in a more superior way by actually UV unwrapping the object.

     

    CBR

    OK so here is the wireframe model, I hope it helps, could you point out the error that you see? Also how can I make a Moon lighting in the night scene? I think I set all of the material to be Cubic... The grass is done with Forester and for some reason when I put the grass into foresters own cloner Aarnold does not see the effects so i made the grass multiply on its own... 

    Wireframe.png

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    Cerbera    1,919

    Ah yes, we can see what the problem is now we have the wireframe view. It is two-fold.

     

    Firstly, see the corner pieces of your house, and how many segments are in them to support that level of bend ?

    Now look at the walls, which you also asking to bend nearly that much, but now you give them nothing like enough polygons to hold that deformation, so we get what can best be described as a sort of 'degradation error' as the software tries its best to do what you;ve told it with not enough geometry to do so ! Triangles are particularly not helpful here, especially when they are that big, when they really can disrupt any edge flow you may have going on with that object. Here we have here an example of a situation when triangles can ruin things (or at least compound other errors) regardless of SDS !

     

    The second problem is likely happening because of using cubic mapping on a sloping (non-cubic) surface, in combination with the problem above. Cubic is great when it's all straight lines and planarity, but as soon as you add wonky angles it is no longer the optimal mapping method. In this case, UV mapping mode, and actually UVing the object will give a flawless result that none of the standard projections can match, although flat projection applied several times to different parts of the object in different planes may give you a half-way house kinda answer a bit faster than actually unwrapping it (although even that would be quite quick too if you know the tools well enough) !

     

    CBR

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    BIgor    8
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  • 1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

    Ah yes, we can see what the problem is now we have the wireframe view. It is two-fold.

     

    Firstly, see the corner pieces of your house, and how many segments are in them to support that level of bend ?

    Now look at the walls, which you also asking to bend nearly that much, but now you give them nothing like enough polygons to hold that deformation, so we get what can best be described as a sort of 'degradation error' as the software tries its best to do what you;ve told it with not enough geometry to do so ! Triangles are particularly not helpful here, especially when they are that big, when they really can disrupt any edge flow you may have going on with that object. Here we have here an example of a situation when triangles can ruin things (or at least compound other errors) regardless of SDS !

     

    The second problem is likely happening because of using cubic mapping on a sloping (non-cubic) surface, in combination with the problem above. Cubic is great when it's all straight lines and planarity, but as soon as you add wonky angles it is no longer the optimal mapping method. In this case, UV mapping mode, and actually UVing the object will give a flawless result that none of the standard projections can match, although flat projection applied several times to different parts of the object in different planes may give you a half-way house kinda answer a bit faster than actually unwrapping it (although even that would be quite quick too if you know the tools well enough) !

     

    CBR

    Ok, so if I understand you correctly most of the problems should get fixed by subdividing the models and maybe a little bit of reaajusting of the polygons, well that is what I did and this is the end result, what do you think? 
    P.S. I also added new grass with Hair... 

    Front_with_Grass_2_Subdivided_2.png

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    Cerbera    1,919

    Yep, that seems to have fixed the shading errors :)

     

    Some other things though, if I may ?

     

    1. Your gravel path is being stretched in one direction, and looks comparatively fake next to everything else because it has no depth. You can fix this with bump, normal or displacement, and by adjusting the texture (should be flat mapping) so it is scaled 1:1 with the source photo.

     

    2. That grass is still way too spread out and has too many gaps. Grass next to houses, even weird ones, is usually luxuriously dense and verdant, but I don't think you should neatly trim it, as a little length and wildness in the grass will add character to the scene.

     

    3. The whole image is ruined for me by abrupt cutting out of the ground plane and the miscellaneous black void behind it - I presume you intend to fill that with something, but if not, then that's what you need to change most about this picture !

     

    CBR

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    BIgor    8
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  • 2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    Yep, that seems to have fixed the shading errors :)

     

    Some other things though, if I may ?

     

    1. Your gravel path is being stretched in one direction, and looks comparatively fake next to everything else because it has no depth. You can fix this with bump, normal or displacement, and by adjusting the texture (should be flat mapping) so it is scaled 1:1 with the source photo.

     

    2. That grass is still way too spread out and has too many gaps. Grass next to houses, even weird ones, is usually luxuriously dense and verdant, but I don't think you should neatly trim it, as a little length and wildness in the grass will add character to the scene.

     

    3. The whole image is ruined for me by abrupt cutting out of the ground plane and the miscellaneous black void behind it - I presume you intend to fill that with something, but if not, then that's what you need to change most about this picture !

     

    CBR

    Yes I tried to fill the background with some hills but could not make it work, not yet, I replaced the Road texture with a new one that has a nice Displacement map and the only way it will work is if it is set to Cubic and the displacement level is 0.01, anything higher gives strange results even with a higher polygon count. 
    I also tried to do something with the grass, any suggestion how I can make it more random, the way you described it with the Hair module that is built in C4D? Oh and if there is anything else I can do to make this look better or if there are still some mistakes feel free to tell me, I want to learn and improve :D 
    P.S. I am rendering this with Arnold using a Physical sky, any idea how I can ad some moon light to the Night Scene?

    Front_with_Grass_2_Subdivided_3.png

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    Cerbera    1,919
    1 hour ago, BIgor said:

    I replaced the Road texture with a new one that has a nice Displacement map and the only way it will work is if it is set to Cubic and the displacement level is 0.01, anything higher gives strange results even with a higher polygon count. 

    It will work with flat mapping if you set the direction of it correctly with texture / Axis modes. But cubic will do, and this is much better, although it seems raised slightly above ground level, whereas normally paths are carved into the ground, if you see what I mean... it's the displacement doing that, so maybe drop the path object a little, and cut some polygons away in the main ground to accommodate it. Or it would look even better if you just did it with multi textures and alpha masks and just one ground object ! In fact you could make all the natural surfaces in this scene from a single landscape if you were so minded...

     

    1 hour ago, BIgor said:

    I also tried to do something with the grass, any suggestion how I can make it more random,

    It's too short, too thick, and there's nothing like enough of it. You want several million hairs, with some random direction bend and much less clumping. Or, there is another, better approach using multiple hair objects. Even with hair's incredible scope for variation, you will still get even better results if you have several hair objects, with complimentary settings so you give the impression of a truly random patch of grasses. But I would suggest that you actually go outside, look at loads of real grass, and try and work out precisely what qualities make up its character, then replicate those in the hair material. It is possible to get a really stunning result this way.

     

    Here's some I made earlier that way...

    26-Gandalfs-cutting-034C.thumb.jpg.1cefb878303181f57cad050010bc054a.jpg

     

    1 hour ago, BIgor said:

    I tried to fill the background with some hills but could not make it work, not yet

    Keep trying :) A couple of landscape objects scaled and flattened a little, with different random seed should suffice...

     

    1 hour ago, BIgor said:

    P.S. I am rendering this with Arnold using a Physical sky, any idea how I can ad some moon light to the Night Scene?

    No, I don't have Arnold. I could tell you how to do it in the native renderers, but that won't help you I suspect...

     

    CBR

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    BIgor    8
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  • 2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    It will work with flat mapping if you set the direction of it correctly with texture / Axis modes. But cubic will do, and this is much better, although it seems raised slightly above ground level, whereas normally paths are carved into the ground, if you see what I mean... it's the displacement doing that, so maybe drop the path object a little, and cut some polygons away in the main ground to accommodate it. Or it would look even better if you just did it with multi textures and alpha masks and just one ground object ! In fact you could make all the natural surfaces in this scene from a single landscape if you were so minded...

     

    It's too short, too thick, and there's nothing like enough of it. You want several million hairs, with some random direction bend and much less clumping. Or, there is another, better approach using multiple hair objects. Even with hair's incredible scope for variation, you will still get even better results if you have several hair objects, with complimentary settings so you give the impression of a truly random patch of grasses. But I would suggest that you actually go outside, look at loads of real grass, and try and work out precisely what qualities make up its character, then replicate those in the hair material. It is possible to get a really stunning result this way.

     

    Here's some I made earlier that way...

    26-Gandalfs-cutting-034C.thumb.jpg.1cefb878303181f57cad050010bc054a.jpg

     

    Keep trying :) A couple of landscape objects scaled and flattened a little, with different random seed should suffice...

     

    No, I don't have Arnold. I could tell you how to do it in the native renderers, but that won't help you I suspect...

     

    CBR

    Ok this is all very useful advice, THX a lot :D Your Grass render looks Epic! :D Well please tell me how to make a moon lighting in the native render and maybe I can then figure out how to incorporate that in Arnold... 

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    BIgor    8
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  • 4 hours ago, BIgor said:

    Ok this is all very useful advice, THX a lot :D Your Grass render looks Epic! :D Well please tell me how to make a moon lighting in the native render and maybe I can then figure out how to incorporate that in Arnold... 

    Ok so I tried to fix everything you said was the problem... what do you think of it now? I added some stuff to the BG and even made a cave like Mine entrance... 

    Front_with_Grass_2_Subdivided_6_0037.png

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    Cerbera    1,919

    That is looking a whole load better than it was. Path is fine now, grass much better, good background stuff and textures.

     

    2 things to try to make it into a night scene...

     

    1. Get Arnold's equivalent of a sun light (directional), make it an off white-blue and quite bright. Then get anothe rlight doing only ambient illumination set to very dark desaturated blue to slightly fill in the shadows.

    2. Take that image, into photoshop and color grade it !

     

    CBR

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