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DBVFX

C4D R20 - what do you guys expect?

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Rectro    703
3 hours ago, everfresh said:

ugh... really? i used psds on my eva fresh model, and they did render... although i was just rendering stills, but the morphs showed up correctly in the render.  but good to know, will have an eye on it in future projects. 

It works on a single frame, but when you render out the animation the frame what ever it happens to be on has the PSD morph frozen in all frames, in other words, it dont update each frame with the PSD morph state.  Only way is to bake the PSD morphs into the whole animation.

 

Dan

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everfresh    334
34 minutes ago, Rectro said:

It works on a single frame, but when you render out the animation the frame what ever it happens to be on has the PSD morph frozen in all frames, in other words, it dont update each frame with the PSD morph state.  Only way is to bake the PSD morphs into the whole animation.

 

Dan

that sucks. makes me wonder how they could have not noticed it before release. i'd be under the impression if you developed a feature like this you would also do some animation tests??? 

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Rectro    703
11 minutes ago, everfresh said:

that sucks. makes me wonder how they could have not noticed it before release. i'd be under the impression if you developed a feature like this you would also do some animation tests??? 

Thats exactly what its made for, deformation corrections during articulation of joints for animation, it has no other use.  A typical still frame object only needs correcting for a single pose unless you rigged it for multiple still shots.  Baking it is the only option, but Im glad that we have that for now, look how long it took to even add the PSD morphs since they removed it from a past version.

 

Dan

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artichoke    2

Like others, I expect ProRender to be advanced in R20.I certainly hope so - I still feel had by R19's version of ProRender - my fault for not understanding better it's limitations before committing to the MSA, but because it was one of the main reasons I got R19, I feel burned. Hardly felt like a solid, workable renderer, more like a "coming attraction". 

 

I don't plan to spend anymore money to essentially get a head start with tools that won't be fully functioning until later updates. 

 

A reworked UV toolset / system would be a big surprise but very welcome. Though still useable, the current UV system has become so outdated, I wonder if MAXON has just abdicated that portion of the software to 3rd party specialists. 

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Rectro    703
37 minutes ago, artichoke said:

Like others, I expect ProRender to be advanced in R20.I certainly hope so - I still feel had by R19's version of ProRender - my fault for not understanding better it's limitations before committing to the MSA, but because it was one of the main reasons I got R19, I feel burned. Hardly felt like a solid, workable renderer, more like a "coming attraction". 

 

I don't plan to spend anymore money to essentially get a head start with tools that won't be fully functioning until later updates. 

 

A reworked UV toolset / system would be a big surprise but very welcome. Though still useable, the current UV system has become so outdated, I wonder if MAXON has just abdicated that portion of the software to 3rd party specialists. 

MAXON said it has not fully incorporated all its features to Pro Renderer, and when a first iteration for such a big add on comes in that context I got what I expected from Pro Renderer, Iv not touch it as it neither has the features, the stability or my system has a good enough Card to untilize it.  New features always get over hyped, and I dont get pulled into it.  The MSA in itself is saving you a fair bit, more so if you make the best of what Cinevercity offers.

 

The only saving of opting out of a MSA is never to return, and this means you have a half baked version of Pro renderer.  Even if you left it a few years till your just within the upgrade path, your still pay for all them years of upgrades anyway, only more without the MSA discount.  Your dammed if you do, dammed if you dont.  

 

MAXON did say something about its UV tools in a blog, and I have no doubt they will update them.  For many the expectations are high for r20, and given that MAXON increased its MSA they had better pull something special off.  There will always be better 3rd party specialist tools, but they know that their software is a workhourse that still must meet a certain level of quality, and areas such as mentioned are a long way behind.

 

Luxology for Modo once had this method of incrementally adding features, I hated it, and it meant that your playing a game of evolution waiting for a product to become something that it may never be, or at best complete over many years. I dont know If MAXON has ever done this before, iv not been around long enough.  I gathered that they generally MAXON adds features fully functional out the box so I cant give an opinion if they will drag Pro Renderer updates out over many years or produce huge leaps in its implementation.

 

Dan

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artichoke    2

you make a good point, Dan. To continue with the MSA would ideally yield a more fully realized ProRender within R20. Opting out would leave me having paid money for what feels like a "preview mode" renderer. 

I think you're right, too, that in general new features in C4D have been more functional, then refined in subsequent releases. The ProRender felt different than that. Granted, the viewport improvements were helpful. 

 

It seems R19's "under the hood" core work was setting the stage for some impressive leaps to come in the program - like the rest, I'm hoping R20 reflects this.

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Cerbera    1,973
On 09/04/2018 at 2:29 PM, artichoke said:

I think you're right, too, that in general new features in C4D have been more functional, then refined in subsequent releases.

Speaking as someone that goes back to R10.5, I think I am right in saying that MAXON has, in that time at least, never produced any new functionality that didn't work almost perfectly straight away on first iteration (occasionally small issues would be fixed in short order via in-cycle updates).

 

This changed with R18, which introduced about 150 separate problems with the new knife tools ( the most crucial of which weren't fixed until nearly a year later) and (forgive me for banging on about it) a broken OpenSubdiv implementation that still hasn't been fixed 2 years later ! So, I'd say that even if we remove largely non-functional ProRender from the equation, that previously stellar reputation is rather in the balance at the moment...

 

CBR

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Rectro    703
1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Speaking as someone that goes back to R10.5, I think I am right in saying that MAXON has, in that time at least, never produced any new functionality that didn't work almost perfectly straight away on first iteration (occasionally small issues would be fixed in short order via in-cycle updates).

 

This changed with R18, which introduced about 150 separate problems with the new knife tools ( the most crucial of which weren't fixed until nearly a year later) and (forgive me for banging on about it) a broken OpenSubdiv implementation that still hasn't been fixed 2 years later ! So, I'd say that even if we remove largely non-functional ProRender from the equation, that previously stellar reputation is rather in the balance at the moment...

 

CBR

This is my fear, but Im not giving into that fear just yet.  This was the very reason I moved from MODO to C4D, only every year had this cycle of instabilities, and broken tools, along with high expectations of features that failed at the very least on the level of intuitive user friendly tools.

 

R18 has certainly shown this as you say, and I hope its a blip, or delayed response during their transition to the new core.  OpenSubdiv is something that either works or it dont, so they have to get this sorted, lets hope r20 will show this.  Even if its a feature that not everyone uses it should at least show all their users their attention to their own tools, and adhering to past standards of having workable features out the box.  What I dont want to see is new features being added that look great on paper but in actual reality don't work.

 

MAXON certainly has a good reputation of stability, easy of use, and from what iv come to know well thought out implementations of workable tools, all but many being a tad old in accordance to today's technological advances.  I hope MAXON reinforces these things with r20.

 

Im a sporadic musician, and use Reason software.  Reason 10 recently came out, for many  the "10" should have been a huge shift in its core functionality, but it wasnt no more than a content bundle all be it a nice one for some whom didnt shed out loads for VSTi the year before.  I do hope that to MAXON the "20" is significant to them.

 

Dan

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DBVFX    2
  • Topic Author
  • Hey guys, in the latest 3D World mag, there's an interview with Andres Hildebrandt from MAXON. In regards to R20 he doesn't say too much but he does say;

    "One of the focuses that might be obvious is that we want to reach out to the 2D community," he admits, also teasing exciting new updates due later this year. "They'll probably be very nice for most people. It is definitely a remarkable release, unfortunately I can't tell you more... yet."

    ^ So no idea what that means exactly other than something to do with 2D? But thought should share haha!

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    Rectro    703
    28 minutes ago, DBVFX said:

    Hey guys, in the latest 3D World mag, there's an interview with Andres Hildebrandt from MAXON. In regards to R20 he doesn't say too much but he does say;

    "One of the focuses that might be obvious is that we want to reach out to the 2D community," he admits, also teasing exciting new updates due later this year. "They'll probably be very nice for most people. It is definitely a remarkable release, unfortunately I can't tell you more... yet."

    ^ So no idea what that means exactly other than something to do with 2D? But thought should share haha!

    Photogrammetry would be cool, that brings 2D into the 3D world.  Thanks for the info.

     

    Dan

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    Gokhanb    0

    I hope addding "3D PDF export" feature like Esko and hope add "Hologram Shader" for label designers...

    holo.jpg

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    DBVFX    2
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  • R20 looking very interesting here!!

     

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