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Hi, Im a bit disconnected from the new C4d r19 and Modo 12 series. I would like to know what do you think about modeling, last time (modo 801) that I checked Modo was more advanced but now is 2018 and time passed, so maybe now C4d is at the same level.. I dont know.

 

What do yo think?

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I'd say Modo still has the edge for pure modelling, but not by as wide a margin as it used to. Some of our modelling tools are now Modo's equal, and a few are actually better (bevel for example). However, neither of them are as good at modelling as Max (though our bevel / polypen is better than that too!), which for me at least holds the (overall) modelling crown and always has done. Maya is equally capable but harder to use than almost anything else. With that said, Cinema is getting closer to the top all the time. We are only missing a few key modelling tools now, most notably 'set flow', create loop end, generate topology,  (working) OpenSubDiv and proper face constraints.

 

CBR

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16 minutes ago, rushes said:

ok! and what about Blender modeling tools?

Oh yeah, forgot about that one ! Unnecessarily awkward to use (though that can be largely mitigated with a new more standard front end for it), but if you know what you're doing in it, it's surprisingly well-featured. Still not quite as good as Max though, and arguably looks like cr*p in the viewport :)

 

Looks-wise I'd grade them as follows:

 

1. Modo

2. Cinema

3. Max

4. Maya

5. Blender

6. Houdini (rubbish for modelling anyway unless nodal-only is your thing)

 

CBR

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You can model all the same things in all the apps it's all about speed of modeling.  For organic things a sculpting program might be faster like 3dcoat or zbrush.  I'd really love a comparison with a talented modeler modeling the same thing in each program and saying time to model.  This would be the fairest comparison.

 

Thank you Cerbera for the info.  I've not tried modeling in many of these programs.  I know I can model anything with C4D so I was happy.  The lack of baking textures onto a lower poly object in C4D is the biggest draw back to modeling I see.  I have to export everything to 3Dcoat to do a proper bake and it's a pain.

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I think you need to think about what kind of modeling you are talking about. For organic modeling, I would think zbrush or 3d coat is fastest and easiest, but they can come back to bite you if you need very precise UV mapping. For straight up SDS modeling, Cerbera's list is pretty close to my experience. Modo does have the best falloffs. C4D modeling beats Modo for anything to do with splines, though the newer procedural features of Modo work unless you hit the limitation that requires you to change everything to non procedural (which happens a lot). I personally hate the clickiness of Modo modeling. Houdini can be the slowest to model, but you can reuse everything in other projects and it is the best if you need to assemble the work as part of a bigger scene.

 

Since modeling exists is a larger world that includes uv editing, posemorphs, character rigging, scripting, access to plugins, lighting, and rendering, import/export to other programs, stability, use by others in one's work, etc. - it is often best to pick a package that meets your needs for more than modeling.

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On 5/17/2018 at 10:06 PM, Cerbera said:

most notably 'set flow', create loop end, generate topology,

 

CBR

Can you explain these 3 tools?

Is "set flow" something like what Maya can do to say arrange some points to fit in the flow of the surrounding points?

I can't imagine what the others are. :)

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32 minutes ago, filipstamate said:

Is "set flow" something like what Maya can do to say arrange some points to fit in the flow of the surrounding points?

Set Flow does exactly what the knife tool does when we have preserve curvature ticked, but would be callable at any time, and applicable to any selection, independently of any tool. This is pretty essential for making uniform topology, but there are ways around it in Cinema, and HB modelling bundle goes a long way to redressing the balance here.

 

Create Loop end does this... we give it the selected edges on the left there, and it finishes that loop for us (right).

 

5b3b7195adffa_createloopend.thumb.JPG.21be34f035eebf4cd78d5de93083cf82.JPG

 

Generate Topology allows you to instantly turn a plane into any number of different and interesting topologies with a single click, most notably diamond-form, plank-form, voronoi-form, cel-form etc. Cinema has other ways of doing these things, but they are all harder. In Max you just select the object, and choose a pattern from a drop-down list.

 

CBR

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Ah, got it thanks!


All good stuff that would be useful indeed.

 

Was just trying a while ago to do a diamond patter without manually cutting the edges but didn't figure out how.


Speaking of preserve curvature... to me that looks like it's not actually calculating the curvature all that well. I mean, if I delete a loop from sphere and try to put it back with the loop cut tool it won't be identical with the deleted one. Whereas in Maya, the new loop will be in exactly the same place. Seems like C4D just gives you the slider to eyeball it, I'm not sure if it does any calculations.

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8 minutes ago, filipstamate said:

Was just trying a while ago to do a diamond patter without manually cutting the edges but didn't figure out how.

Oh we have got a cheat card for that :) Get a plane with roughly square segments, points mode, bevel tool, tick limit, bevel to maximum and optimize gives you perfect diamond form. Alas it ONLY works for diamond form, not the other interesting types, although by stacking bevels you can get some ridiculously cool and complex topology of another kind altogether, but it's just not Max's nice easy drop-down list :).

 

I should also mention Merk vilsson's latest plugin, which I can't remember the name of, but I know it does admirably fill that particular gap...

 

CBR

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Of course, point bevel! Thanks!

 

To get back to something that is good about C4D, I love that you can Ctrl+drag in edge slide mode to duplicate an edge loop. And it has preserve curvature as well. I use this all the time and I couldn't find it, if it exists, in the other programs I tried.

 

Though I wish the edge slide mode would have that option from the KyamaSlide plugin to slide a boundary edge past the boundary. That exists in Blender for example.


So, together with the duplicate option in the regular slide you could drag an extra loop that continues the shape...


And of course it would be great if we could slide multiple points as well.

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1 minute ago, filipstamate said:

I love that you can Ctrl+drag in edge slide mode to duplicate an edge loop. And it has preserve curvature as well. I use this all the time and I couldn't find it, if it exists, in the other programs I tried.

Yes me too - awesome feature :) And Axis Extension / Snap - couldn't work that for years, then it suddenly clicked, and now all my stuff is perfectly aligned with everything else :) Good old Cinema...

 

CBR

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