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Hrvoje

CINEMA 4D R20 OVERVIEW

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15 minutes ago, SKaiser said:

ProRenderer, still unimpressed with this. I wish the C4D devs concentrated on other aspects of the application over this renderer that nobody uses. It has to be a viable competitor to the other GPU renderers out there or just forget it.

 

 

I'm waiting for some additional comparisons, but at first glance, the problem I have with ProRender is that while it gains features to be production ready, it doesn't yet provide the significant speed we can expect from a GPU renderer at least having a very high-end configuration with multiple expensive GPU. From what I already saw, all other third party renderers are not just two but multiple times faster to achieve the same result, and with OpenCL officially deprecated in MacOS it doesn't seem to be the best bet for MAXON.

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13 minutes ago, Edouard said:

with OpenCL officially deprecated in MacOS it doesn't seem to be the best bet for MAXON.

 

Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

 

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7 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

 

Unfortunately, when I load the OpenCL drivers that ProRender recommends on my Xeon/Quadro P4000 machine, C4D becomes unstable.  I issued a crash report and the tech response on what to do, while complete and thorough, was rather involved and  not implemented for the simple reason that ProRender is so slow.  It just wasn't worth implementing a work around that may (or may not) compromise other features of the program.  Better to uninstall the drivers and leave ProRender unused.

 

Dave

 

 

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22 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

 

 

Ok thanks it is reassuring a bit, just hope to gain some performance in the future then. The Prorender denoising could have helped but it 's a little unfortunate that it hasn't been yet implemented.

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Got a nice surprise at lunch today when I saw the feature list for R20 had been announced a bit early. Spent some time looking through the features and improvements, big and small. My initial gut reaction is that this is a nice upgrade and about what I expected in the sense that I knew we weren't going to get something like nodal materials, new UV workflow, fully complete ProRender, etc all wrapped in one release. That's just not how MAXON operates in terms of guarding against instability and in terms of the number of hours in a day and development days in a year.

 

I will say MAXON deserves a little dig because after R19 was released there was some communication going on to the effect of interim BodyPaint developments underway, and that they would be available at some interim point (unspecified), and that never materialized. And then here again with R20 nothing for those folks, so I don't blame them for negative posts on the BodyPaint side. That said it's good to know from Rick's prior posts that it's not dead / off the radar, although from a workflow perspective it might as well be in practical terms.  Back to R20...

 

NODAL SYSTEM: I think it looks pretty impressive, minus the unfortunate omission of SSS. Maybe that's an interim update we'll get? Adding nodes as a part of bug fix updates a possibility? I don't get the people who are saying "sure we finally got the nodal system but it's x years overdue, so 'no credit for you!'" Of course MAXON deserves credit on that. Isn't that the point of all these damn discussions we have every year?? We tell them where the major pain points are, they set to delivering a solution, and when they do we show some appreciation and satisfaction that we are now operating with -1 pain point? (Nod your head and say "Yes, Scoob, that is correct. We are pleased to have -1 pain point.")

 

Seems like a few people are in serious Negative Nancy / Norman territory right now. Criticizing remaining weak points is OK if done constructively but otherwise Lighten up and give credit in the spots where it's due, folks. :wackywink:

 

OpenVDB Modeling: Also seems like a pretty nice addition to me although remains to be seen how clean the models are, etc. But I see this as our MeshFusion and I'm happy we've got it. Boolean modeling improvements was another area people asked for, although not one of the huge items. But I could see myself using this all the time, based on what I know so far. Looks like a pretty seamless and snappy workflow from the demo videos.

 

Mo' Fields: I'm a little hazy on these and I'll defer judgement till I see some more examples and tutorials from our vaunted admin. I will be honest my initial impression was a little bit "this is going to become the Takes of R20" where it's certainly useful in some instances and makes some things much quicker than before but not a "hang your hat on it" kind of feature. That said I am eager to be proven wrong. :geek: If they're anywhere near as useful as stated, then this is MAXON re-asserting leadership in the mograph field, which no one should blame them. They want to hold on to that title of being the best mograph dcc out there. Nothing wrong with working on strong and weak edges in the same release.

 

Mo' Instances: this may be MAXON's way of improving object management and viewport performance for a particular workflow, but it's not the end of this story I don't think. I may not be understanding the full implications here but until we can get to rapid prototyping with big particle systems as well as cloned object instances, it's still a pain point. Also I would like to here whether this feature is GPU-aware and could benefit from eGPUs or systems with more than one GPU, etc. Generally, there's very little info in the feature list that talks about GPU-aware features. Would be cool to hear from MAXON on that in general. I think others would agree.

 

Pro Render: as I've never used it I'll reserve judgement but certainly seems like a lot of the "missing features" are no longer missing. Again I think this is 100% MAXON guarding against stability issues last time around if I had to guess. They probably could've added a bunch of these items last time but it would've been too buggy probably. On the speed part, let's see it. I want to see some stuff with a ton of these attributes applied to a scene and the viewport being rotated, panned, etc. I'm prepared to give MAXON credit on this expansion of a prime feature but I want to see proof first that this component is really showing up as advertised.

 

CAD Import: I gotta say this one surprised me and am very glad to see MAXON paying attention to it. I all but gave up on trying to find non-klunky / inexpensive solutions to bringing Solidworks files into C4D to animate them. One thing I'd like to know: when working with SolidWorks files is C4D aware of the assembly components that make up a file and allow them to be handled individually after import, or is it a monolithic object where the only thing you can see and interact with is what you see on the outside? Thanks to MAXON for providing a solution (hopefully). [I tried animating with SolidWorks it a few times and about threw myself off a bridge.] 

 

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7 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

Mo' Fields: I'm a little hazy on these and I'll defer judgement till I see some more examples and tutorials from our vaunted admin. I will be honest my initial impression was a little bit "this is going to become the Takes of R20" where it's certainly useful in some instances and makes some things much quicker than before but not a "hang your hat on it" kind of feature. That said I am eager to be proven wrong. :geek: If they're anywhere near as useful as stated, then this is MAXON re-asserting leadership in the mograph field, which no one should blame them for. They want to hold on to that title of being the best mograph dcc out there. Nothing wrong with working on strong and weak edges in the same release.

 

Woooweee. This one's big. I am beginning to think of it as MoGraph 2.0, but it's bigger than that.

 

Fields aren't just for mograph!

 

See this video for a little surface scratch of what it can do.

 

 

The end of that video blew me away when I first saw it. I was just thinking of fields as a more powerful falloff, but they are so much more than that. You can use them to drive vertex maps, deformers, OpenVDB meshes, vertex colors, etc.

 

Also, I didn't mention that they have cool things like growth, decay, and delay/spring stuff.  The power of these are really crazy. For a simple example, check out the procedural growth on this tree: 

 

I wish everyone could have seen the live stream Chris Schmidt did today. He was just exploring the new version and the crazy, complicated stuff he was ending up with just goofing around with fields was really cool. Having multiple, animated fields moving around on one plane effector with springy delays and decays produced some wild results.

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1 hour ago, SKaiser said:

It's obvious the MAXON and Insydium have some kind of agreement as C4D will never include any functionality that encroaches on what X-Particles can do.

I don't know about that. The VDB Meshing in R20 is really, really similar to the xpOpenVDBmesher.

Also, a lot of the functionality of the xpVertexMapMaker is now present in what fields can do with vertex maps. Granted, it doesn't quite do everything the xpVertexMapMaker can do (like changing the vertices by the speed of how fast the mesh is moving, for example), but it replaces a lot of it. I mean, you can do wet maps natively in C4D now really, really easily!

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31 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

I will say MAXON deserves a little dig because after R19 was released there was some communication going on to the effect of interim BodyPaint developments underway, and that they would be available at some interim point (unspecified), and that never materialized.

 

That's a fair criticism, though I hope you'll allow me to clarify a bit. During the R18 cycle there was a blog post which communicated that OpenGL painting would be made available in the R18 cycle, and that UV editing are the next BP-related area of emphasis. The OpenGL painting was delivered as an open beta at the very tail end of the R18 cycle and included as a feature in R19. UV improvements are still next among BP-related features - it just isn't part of R20.

 

31 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

One thing I'd like to know: when working with SolidWorks files is C4D aware of the assembly components that make up a file and allow them to be handled individually after import, or is it a monolithic object

If you take a look at my CAD import video, you can see there's tons of options available. You can combine objects based on assembly components, display color or mesh structure. Also instances of assembly components import as instances, which is huge. Also display colors and materials can be imported, and tessellation adjusted based on the object's relative size in the project. It's really robust. I'd say it's my favorite feature, but there's fields, VDB, Multi-Instances as well - and I'd risk sounding like Thanassis at Siggraph.

 

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h Szalam. I did see some of that veideo earlier. I think I just haven't wrapped my brain around it fully and once I see a few more working examples I'll have a full sense of what it can do beyond expanding the type of falloffs that exist.
 

Here's another question: Uber Material...  the intent is that this will eventually replace the standard C4D Material (which Rick mentioned is still in there) right? I'm assuming there may be a means to add anything from any of the 150 nodes to that window that is mocked up on MAXON's site (bottom of the nodal section) but maybe I'm not getting the intent there.

 

IOW it's basically the "check box and sliders version" of any given nodal material 'network' you create... but you can also start from the other side with standard settings shown there... and add more by virtue of going into the editor and adding a node then switching back to the window view when you're done? That's where the "expose only the parameters you want" aspect comes into play?

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11 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

Here's another question: Uber Material

 

Don't worry so much about the Uber Material itself. The beauty is in what it represents.

 

The most powerful aspect of the node system is the opportunity to package node groups as reusable assets, and these assets can be used directly in the node editor or a very flexible UI system allows them to be accessed directly in the Material Editor window without ever looking at a node. It's much like User Data in the Object System, but much more flexible.

 

The Uber Material is the ultimate example of this. It wasn't created by our developers, but by our design team, using the same tools available to any C4D user. In fact, there's a number of these purpose-built node materials packaged with R20, which make it easy to create car paint, rocks, marble, wood, etc. It's much like the classic 3D shaders (Banji, Banzi, Danel, etc) except created completely in nodes by a non-developer. The Uber Material, with it's tabs, conditionally-visible parameters, drop-downs and more, show how incredibly flexible this UI system is.

 

In fact, any Nodal Material can expose just certain parameters in UI mode just by propogating those parameters and choosing "Set Start Node". So you can create complex reusable nodal setups, and easily tweak parameters without opening the nodal interface each time.

 

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