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Hrvoje

CINEMA 4D R20 OVERVIEW

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I'm less excited about having the node-based materials in general as I am about the node system itself. It's really, really slick and full of handy little workflow tidbits that make it seem like MAXON's had node-based materials for ages and have been tweaking them over several cycles. It bodes well for the future Xpresso overhaul which I hope is coming soon. Don't get me wrong though, I am excited about the node-based system since we're still using standard and physical renderers at my full time job! There have been countless times when that would have saved me so much time!

 

I also think the care and thoughtfulness that went into the new material system is a good omen for the promised future BodyPaint and UV updates.

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28 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

That's a fair criticism, though I hope you'll allow me to clarify a bit. During the R18 cycle there was a blog post which communicated that OpenGL painting would be made available in the R18 cycle, and that UV editing are the next BP-related area of emphasis. The OpenGL painting was delivered as an open beta at the very tail end of the R18 cycle and included as a feature in R19. UV improvements are still next among BP-related features - it just isn't part of R20.

 

If you take a look at my CAD import video, you can see there's tons of options available. You can combine objects based on assembly components, display color or mesh structure. Also instances of assembly components import as instances, which is huge. Also display colors and materials can be imported, and tessellation adjusted based on the object's relative size in the project. It's really robust. I'd say it's my favorite feature, but there's fields, VDB, Multi-Instances as well - and I'd risk sounding like Thanassis at Siggraph.

 

 

Thanks for the clarifications Rick. The CAD import improvements do look fairly robust. I think I'm going to have to try a couple test files and see what I get. Certainly looks easier than the third party plugins I've researched and tried though.

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1 hour ago, HSrdelic said:

 

Your wish is granted - I am actually wrapping up fields training as we type :)

 

Fields are awesome :Bang:

 

Any tutorials on material nodes?  Now, using a node is pretty straight forward,  What I want to understand is a deeper understanding of how to break down a desired effect into a design approach with the nodal system.  A lot of times, the tutorials go as follows: Connect A to B to C,D, and E and then back to D with a side connect to G and back to F and viola you have aged copper with rusty edges.  Okay.....so how do you know to start with A?  How did you even know that nodes B to G were required?

 

That is the type of training I am looking for - how to build that logic and a few design approaches. 

 

Thanks,

Dave

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13 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Don't worry so much about the Uber Material itself. The beauty is in what it represents.

 

The most powerful aspect of the node system is the opportunity to package node groups as reusable assets, and these assets can be used directly in the node editor or a very flexible UI system allows them to be accessed directly in the Material Editor window without ever looking at a node. It's much like User Data in the Object System, but much more flexible.

 

The Uber Material is the ultimate example of this. It wasn't created by our developers, but by our design team, using the same tools available to any C4D user. In fact, there's a number of these purpose-built node materials packaged with R20, which make it easy to create car paint, rocks, marble, wood, etc. It's much like the classic 3D shaders (Banji, Banzi, Danel, etc) except created completely in nodes by a non-developer. The Uber Material, with it's tabs, conditionally-visible parameters, drop-downs and more, show how incredibly flexible this UI system is.

 

In fact, any Nodal Material can expose just certain parameters in UI mode just by propogating those parameters and choosing "Set Start Node". So you can create complex reusable nodal setups, and easily tweak parameters without opening the nodal interface each time.

 

 

Almost missed this one. It sounds almost like the new feature in AE where you can package a series of effect parameters and expose just those parameters in a panel or in Premiere Pro. Basically you set up a network of nodes and then when you package it as an asset you can view it in the standard editor window as checkboxes, sliders, etc?

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1 minute ago, 3D-Pangel said:

What I want to understand is a deeper understanding of how to break down a desired effect into a design approach with the nodal system. 

 

I'll keep that feedback in mind as we work on Node-Based Material tutorials for Cineversity. Have you watched my node quickstart video yet? I think there's a bit of that, in that I explained I was trying to get the lollipop stripes, and so I needed a way to feed a gradient with complementary colors. I probably could explain the thought process more fully, especially as the video goes deeper into the grid and context aspects.

 

Also, if there's specific effects you'd like to see us work towards, I'd love to hear those ideas.

 

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2 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

It sounds almost like the new feature in AE where you can package a series of effect parameters

 

Yeah, it's a very similar concept to Master Properties and also the  Substance integration in C4D, though the UI options are much more extensive.

 

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15 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

I'll keep that feedback in mind as we work on Node-Based Material tutorials for Cineversity. Have you watched my node quickstart video yet? I think there's a bit of that, in that I explained I was trying to get the lollipop stripes, and so I needed a way to feed a gradient with complementary colors. I probably could explain the thought process more fully, especially as the video goes deeper into the grid and context aspects.

 

Also, if there's specific effects you'd like to see us work towards, I'd love to hear those ideas.

 

Pull out the 2009 Star Trek reboot and watch the opening scene where there is this amazing close up of the hull of the Kelvin spaceship.  Just look at the multiple levels of metal reflections off of the hull.  Just gorgeous.  Please try to duplicate that!  You can find it here:

 

Also check out the work done on the Enterprise's hull at 1:02 mark. 

 

Dave

 

I met Roger Guyette (Star Trek ILM VFX supervisor) before he worked on Star Trek.   We talked about the work he did on Mission Impossible 3 and the lighting of the Hong Kong that he had to recreate in the scene where Tom Cruise jumps off a building.   He has a tremendous eye for lighting and texturing in all his work.

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15 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Yeah, it's a very similar concept to Master Properties and also the  Substance integration in C4D, though the UI options are much more extensive.

 

Nice. Thanks for putting in the time to answer these questions for everyone Rick. Great to have a MAXON presence here. (Not that you're the only presence, but in general... very helpful.)

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I wish everyone could have seen the live stream Chris Schmidt did today. He was just exploring the new version and the crazy, complicated stuff he was ending up with just goofing around with fields was really cool. Having multiple, animated fields moving around on one plane effector with springy delays and decays produced some wild results.

 

Here's the livestream Chris did, goes for nearly two hours.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/291897153

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I'll try to be fair and balanced (tough I know :) )

 

Had a bit of time now to look through things. This is clearly the best and biggest update in years and there's a lot of things I like. However it's not the "Big one" as many of us were expecting. The antique UV toolset is part of the old core so with no updated UV toolset R20 is still heavily reliant on the old core. Hence no big improvements in handling lots of objects apart from multi instances. My guess is the core is done and has been done for a few years. Problem is they were late starting on the UV toolset rewrite. To take out the old UV toolset they have to put in the new core completely and they can't put that in until the UV toolset is more or less complete.

 

I think if I was still using C4D I would be reasonably happy with the update although it largely depends on what you do and what version you are running. As a hobbyist who might only be using the Prime version I'm disappointed to see that I wouldn't be getting the new volume modelling, probably the thing that I would get most use out of. Looks like my Bodypaint tutorials are safe for another year with the toolset still the old one as mentioned. MAXON are really dragging the chain updating the UV tools. MoGraph users should be pretty happy and there's plenty for them to play with.

 

So well done to MAXON and their team. Some excellent enhancements but I think you should say when the full new core with updated UV tools are coming. But I can't see anyone using another 3D app busting their gut to jump ship to R20. In fact Blender 2.8 looks like it could pick up a few disgruntled users from various 3D apps.

 

So is Modo that I use any better with their upgrades. Nope. The Foundry aren't piling on the new stuff. It's more about incrementally refining and enhancing things over 3 releases per year rather than dropping everything in one hit. I'm into modelling so the last few versions have focussed a lot on modelling improvements so I'm generally happy. Stability with Modo isn't really an issue any more and it's generally very stable. Not as stable as C4D but a long way from the crash fest it used to be. This means I won't be buying myself a copy of R20 Prime. I can afford it but since there's no updated UV tools, no volume modelling and no Physical renderer I'll be hanging to my money. Plus I can't believe it, but to get Prorender I would need to buy the Studio edition (as per MAXON's product comparison page). Ludicrous!!

 

Enjoy R20 everyone :)

 

Nigel / 3DKiwi

 

 

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