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2 hours ago, mbyrne said:

Can someone shed some more light on the direction in fields? It says "direction for certain effectors" - what does that mean?





Some effectors -like the time effector- dont have a Normal attribute to point them towards a specific direction, only position in space. Perhaps is that?

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Okay....while I am still trying to absorb exactly what R20 means to me, a quick overview of this thread shows that response shows more disappointment than excitement.  Maybe we set our expectations to

Hi folks :)   https://www.maxon.net/en/products/new-in-release-20/overview/   Here is a full feature list   Cinema 4D Release 20 Complete Feature List

That issue is resolved in R20

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5 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Okay....I have been watching a few more videos on R20 and it is beginning to sink in that this is a pretty significant release.  Also, you need to look at R20 as follows: the sum of the parts is so much greater than the whole.  If we only think about fields, material nodes, volume modeling in the traditional sense, then you are understating what those features mean to R20 because their implementation by MAXON throughout the entire architecture of the program  just seems pretty brilliant and well thought out.  If this is what the new core gets us in the future for other features, then I need to learn a greater level of patience - which will be hard but I am confident it will be worth the wait.


I have also been thinking about the delays in Bodypaint.  UV management is at the core of the program as it touches modeling, texturing and rendering.   As such, I honestly think that it will be last on the release pipeline not because it is low priority by MAXON but because it has to be with respect to all the other features they need to implement.  If new features are going to have the same level of integration that we are seeing in R20 due to the new core, then it just makes sense for Bodypaint to be close to the last thing to be implemented because UV editing touches so many other areas.  Think of it this way: do you put up the curtains in a home while the building is still being framed?  Same idea.  There is a logical order to how things need to get done and MAXON is definitely logical.   


It is a no win situation for MAXON given their current culture because they can't explain why the most anticipated feature update is going to be at the tail end of their implementation pipeline unless they divulge what is coming before it.     They also can't say it is a high priority --- because even though it may be a high priority in their development workload it will still need to be implemented after most everything else they have planned.  So statements about priority will seem pretty hollow as we are kept waiting.


That is just the way it is.  Thus the eternal tap dance on the part of the MAXON employees.  They want to scream out that it will be worth the wait but even statements like those beg more questions on when? and why? and how come not now? because to answer any of those questions gets into the order in which features and capabilities need to be released and that is an area MAXON will not go.  So they stay quiet. 


Maybe that will change with the new CEO and we can only hope. 





That makes sense, and looking at the overall response from what I read so far it seems most are happy with R20.  The Majority of their users are Mograph users, and the minority are character artists, modellers, texture artist.  If from what your saying is true then by the time they get around the the UV tool set, proper modelling symmetry and up to date modelling tools, faster character animation and improvements in these areas me and most of this minority will be gone, not because we necessarily have moved on to a alternative but because MAXON pushed its minority out the upgrade path due to expecting us to keep paying out for what has little to no benefit to this group of users, more so being that these users are most likely to be Studio users whom get to pay the highest MSA or upgrade costs.  The only way they can keep all its users happy to some degree is to be more open about their road map, this mite get some to hang on a little longer, Im not one of them due to their pricing policies that offer a unattractive penalty for missing a update.


Regardless what MAXON do Il continue to use C4D for a while yet and help the community where I can.



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2 hours ago, mbyrne said:

Can someone shed some more light on the direction in fields? It says "direction for certain effectors" - what does that mean?


Just like many of the effectors now have a Field Color option, and you can control the color with fields, the Target Effector now has a Field Direction option. So rather than specify the direction based on an object or the camera, you can define it via fields. This means that clones can point towards or away from a spline (or along the direction of the spline). Or the direction can be randomized or defined via tiles or other shaders. Or you can define the direction in a myriad of other ways.


Orestis has some nice examples of this which he's planning to show at Siggraph, so make sure to tune in via C4DLive August 14-16.





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19 hours ago, Rectro said:

The only way they can keep all its users happy to some degree is to be more open about their road map, this mite get some to hang on a little longer, Im not one of them due to their pricing policies that offer a unattractive penalty for missing a update.




You're reading my mind. If Cinema 4D is a Mograph application, then so be it. I love Cinema 4D, but I really think about sticking to my MSA. MAXON proided many features with R20, but not in the areas that I hoped for. At the moment I'm still on R18 and I may stay there, although I have the right to install R20 when it comes out. I have to chose between an improved R20 and updating all the plugins from R18, or stay on R18, as R20 doesn't bring a real benefit to my use case. When R20 is out, I will give it a test drive and decide then.


I absolutely agree with Dan, that a road map wold be highly appreciated or a commitment about what Cinema 4D will be focused in future.

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Yup. A roadmap that shows the big picture priorities in upcoming releases, without showing how the features work or exactly when they'll be available, would provide some piece of mind without harming them competitively. I think quite a few people who balk at the MSA and upgrade every other release or every couple releases, would just bite the bullet and say "OK, I know now the things I need to be addressed are being addressed and I'll get them at some point in the next couple years, so I'm just going to support MAXON via MSA with the knowledge that money will help to build the better workflow I want, rather than jumping ship or using C4D less of the time."


That being said, R20 is definitely a better upgrade than R17 or R19 IMO. Just making a general point that from a communication standpoint, the new CEO would be wise to consider working with his team to publish a blog post with a nice roadmap like this. Would be an immediate sign he's listening and cares about providing some piece of mind, which should in turn provide him with more MSA signups from year to year as the new core gets fully integrated through the app, new materials, new rendering, etc.

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MAXON should definitely put out some average between our expectations and reality. Expectations of how long a particular part of the system is going to take don't matter anymore, because everyone is already working on that on there own. It is very short-sighted for a company that is in the same game as their competitors to focus on such a narrow band of competitiveness. Just get it out there and they will come. If it's what they want then they will want it. If you disagree then why are you having it and why do you want it?


While I'm here. Scott, have a day off.

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45 minutes ago, everfresh said:

any chance you're mixing this one up with the thread over at cgtalk? :D

I certainly am. And to save face I'm just not going to care. :wackywink: I just never thought alcohol could do such a thing. I should have typed it in capitals so he might have heard me over at cgtalk.


Silly me.:oops:

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Congratulation MAXON to great release, can´t wait to play with...


When watching R20 overview videos, there is a lot of usefull stuff. Maybe one thing what I miss is some kind of retopo of volumes...

Retopology tools together with volumes could be as good as (or much better) than Modo´s MeshFusion Boolean Tools especially for modelers.

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On 8/4/2018 at 1:59 PM, Visionnext said:

You're reading my mind. If Cinema 4D is a Mograph application, then so be it.

C4D is obviously not just MoGraph. Fields, although their initial idea is conceived around MoGraph, are valid and applicable throughout pretty much everything in R20



I think I can safely assume that all of us on Cafe that do have certain insight into development would love to see a change in policy, and I really hope this will change. Until then, we are simply bound by NDA and will of course respect it. With that being said, I am trying to place myself in position of someone who is not acquainted with future and am trying to assess R20 from that standpoint.  I would say it is not that difficult to extrapolate the roadmap, plus there were hints here and on cgtalk....

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