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CINEMA 4D R20 OVERVIEW

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Great update! Viewport lag with mograph instances is the most common issue in my workflow so the Multi Instance feature is a wonderful new addition.

 

The inclusion of fields also looks interesting, it seems to be steering C4D towards Houdini functionality. It would be great if there were a few "Vertex Pusher" like tutorials to quickly help to get to grips with them.

 

As many have said before, Redshift is my main rendering solution now so the node based materials has less of an impact on me (though it would be great if Redshift could utilise the c4d nodal interface). That being said, I often work with clients that force me to use native C4D rendering capabilities, so I'm sure I'll find the nodal system useful.

 

I also use c4d for modelling and character work. I don't really understand  why users are complaining about the lack of character and modelling updates when these were addressed in the last few version updates, particularly for modelling (polygon pen, new knife and bezel tools).

Also, while the current UV tools in C4D may not be the best out there, I can still do all I need to do extremely well with the inclusion of a few plugins. The workflow is smooth and stable - nothing to whinge about.

 

In contrast to the positives, there's a few negatives:

 

ProRenderer, still unimpressed with this. I wish the C4D devs concentrated on other aspects of the application over this renderer that nobody uses. It has to be a viable competitor to the other GPU renderers out there or just forget it.

 

It's obvious the MAXON and Insydium have some kind of agreement as C4D will never include any functionality that encroaches on what X-Particles can do.

 

For me,  it's rare for any dynamic simulation that's more than super simple  to work as it should, out of the box, without at least an hour of tweaking and cheating. I have a feeling that the dynamic algorithms are all in need of re-writing and optimisation.

 

Other than that, looking forward to using R20!

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  • 3 minutes ago, SKaiser said:

    The inclusion of fields also looks interesting, it seems to be steering C4D towards Houdini functionality. It would be great if there were a few "Vertex Pusher" like tutorials to quickly help to get to grips with them.

     

    Your wish is granted - I am actually wrapping up fields training as we type :)

     

    Fields are awesome :Bang:

     

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    Free C4D trainings from MAXON professional on our youtube channel

     

    https://www.youtube.com/c4dcafe

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    1 minute ago, HSrdelic said:

     

    Your wish is granted - I am actually wrapping up fields training as we type :)

     

    Fields are awesome :Bang:

     

     

    Awesome - Looking forward to it!

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    I think sometime people forget that C4D is hands down the most stable 3D application in existence.

     

    Does this really matter more than the features? I'm sorry, but this is not an excuse.


    And in fact, stability seems to have taken a hit as years went by too. C4D was the program that "never" crashed... well, you can't really say that about it anymore. It's still very solid, of course, but just something to think about.

     

    I would love to use the new interface in Redshift.


    It would be great. The Xpresso UI is... old.

    Of course, Redshift could also do their own UI like Octane did.

     

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    13 minutes ago, filipstamate said:

     

     

     

    Does this really matter more than the features? I'm sorry, but this is not an excuse.

     

    Excuse for what? If stability is so easy to achieve, then by all means whats the excuse Modo and Maya have to crash so frequently?

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    6 minutes ago, luchifer said:

    Excuse for what? If stability is so easy to achieve, then by all means whats the excuse Modo and Maya have to crash so frequently?

    Excuse for poor/missing features, since the person I quoted posted that as if people shouldn't complain about features because C4D is so stable.

     

    Honestly I'd rather take the 2 crashes per day (or whatever is the industry standard) than the C4D stability, if that's really what it takes to have more and better features.

     

    The issues with crashing in the Maya or Max (don't know about Modo) are very overblown anyway. It's really pretty much like someone saying today that they use Macs because Windows crashes all the time. It's just not true.


    Also, I always save very often, even in C4D so crashes are a minor annoyance at most.

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    15 minutes ago, SKaiser said:

    ProRenderer, still unimpressed with this. I wish the C4D devs concentrated on other aspects of the application over this renderer that nobody uses. It has to be a viable competitor to the other GPU renderers out there or just forget it.

     

     

    I'm waiting for some additional comparisons, but at first glance, the problem I have with ProRender is that while it gains features to be production ready, it doesn't yet provide the significant speed we can expect from a GPU renderer at least having a very high-end configuration with multiple expensive GPU. From what I already saw, all other third party renderers are not just two but multiple times faster to achieve the same result, and with OpenCL officially deprecated in MacOS it doesn't seem to be the best bet for MAXON.

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    13 minutes ago, Edouard said:

    with OpenCL officially deprecated in MacOS it doesn't seem to be the best bet for MAXON.

     

    Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

     

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    7 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

     

    Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

     

    Unfortunately, when I load the OpenCL drivers that ProRender recommends on my Xeon/Quadro P4000 machine, C4D becomes unstable.  I issued a crash report and the tech response on what to do, while complete and thorough, was rather involved and  not implemented for the simple reason that ProRender is so slow.  It just wasn't worth implementing a work around that may (or may not) compromise other features of the program.  Better to uninstall the drivers and leave ProRender unused.

     

    Dave

     

     


    Sorry...but I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.

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    22 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

     

    Since R19 SP2, ProRender has been compatible with Metal on macOS. ProRender was largely chosen in order to provide a cross-platform GPU solution, and we're working closely with both AMD and Apple to ensure it remains one.

     

     

    Ok thanks it is reassuring a bit, just hope to gain some performance in the future then. The Prorender denoising could have helped but it 's a little unfortunate that it hasn't been yet implemented.

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    Got a nice surprise at lunch today when I saw the feature list for R20 had been announced a bit early. Spent some time looking through the features and improvements, big and small. My initial gut reaction is that this is a nice upgrade and about what I expected in the sense that I knew we weren't going to get something like nodal materials, new UV workflow, fully complete ProRender, etc all wrapped in one release. That's just not how MAXON operates in terms of guarding against instability and in terms of the number of hours in a day and development days in a year.

     

    I will say MAXON deserves a little dig because after R19 was released there was some communication going on to the effect of interim BodyPaint developments underway, and that they would be available at some interim point (unspecified), and that never materialized. And then here again with R20 nothing for those folks, so I don't blame them for negative posts on the BodyPaint side. That said it's good to know from Rick's prior posts that it's not dead / off the radar, although from a workflow perspective it might as well be in practical terms.  Back to R20...

     

    NODAL SYSTEM: I think it looks pretty impressive, minus the unfortunate omission of SSS. Maybe that's an interim update we'll get? Adding nodes as a part of bug fix updates a possibility? I don't get the people who are saying "sure we finally got the nodal system but it's x years overdue, so 'no credit for you!'" Of course MAXON deserves credit on that. Isn't that the point of all these damn discussions we have every year?? We tell them where the major pain points are, they set to delivering a solution, and when they do we show some appreciation and satisfaction that we are now operating with -1 pain point? (Nod your head and say "Yes, Scoob, that is correct. We are pleased to have -1 pain point.")

     

    Seems like a few people are in serious Negative Nancy / Norman territory right now. Criticizing remaining weak points is OK if done constructively but otherwise Lighten up and give credit in the spots where it's due, folks. :wackywink:

     

    OpenVDB Modeling: Also seems like a pretty nice addition to me although remains to be seen how clean the models are, etc. But I see this as our MeshFusion and I'm happy we've got it. Boolean modeling improvements was another area people asked for, although not one of the huge items. But I could see myself using this all the time, based on what I know so far. Looks like a pretty seamless and snappy workflow from the demo videos.

     

    Mo' Fields: I'm a little hazy on these and I'll defer judgement till I see some more examples and tutorials from our vaunted admin. I will be honest my initial impression was a little bit "this is going to become the Takes of R20" where it's certainly useful in some instances and makes some things much quicker than before but not a "hang your hat on it" kind of feature. That said I am eager to be proven wrong. :geek: If they're anywhere near as useful as stated, then this is MAXON re-asserting leadership in the mograph field, which no one should blame them. They want to hold on to that title of being the best mograph dcc out there. Nothing wrong with working on strong and weak edges in the same release.

     

    Mo' Instances: this may be MAXON's way of improving object management and viewport performance for a particular workflow, but it's not the end of this story I don't think. I may not be understanding the full implications here but until we can get to rapid prototyping with big particle systems as well as cloned object instances, it's still a pain point. Also I would like to here whether this feature is GPU-aware and could benefit from eGPUs or systems with more than one GPU, etc. Generally, there's very little info in the feature list that talks about GPU-aware features. Would be cool to hear from MAXON on that in general. I think others would agree.

     

    Pro Render: as I've never used it I'll reserve judgement but certainly seems like a lot of the "missing features" are no longer missing. Again I think this is 100% MAXON guarding against stability issues last time around if I had to guess. They probably could've added a bunch of these items last time but it would've been too buggy probably. On the speed part, let's see it. I want to see some stuff with a ton of these attributes applied to a scene and the viewport being rotated, panned, etc. I'm prepared to give MAXON credit on this expansion of a prime feature but I want to see proof first that this component is really showing up as advertised.

     

    CAD Import: I gotta say this one surprised me and am very glad to see MAXON paying attention to it. I all but gave up on trying to find non-klunky / inexpensive solutions to bringing Solidworks files into C4D to animate them. One thing I'd like to know: when working with SolidWorks files is C4D aware of the assembly components that make up a file and allow them to be handled individually after import, or is it a monolithic object where the only thing you can see and interact with is what you see on the outside? Thanks to MAXON for providing a solution (hopefully). [I tried animating with SolidWorks it a few times and about threw myself off a bridge.] 

     

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    7 minutes ago, Zmotive said:

    Mo' Fields: I'm a little hazy on these and I'll defer judgement till I see some more examples and tutorials from our vaunted admin. I will be honest my initial impression was a little bit "this is going to become the Takes of R20" where it's certainly useful in some instances and makes some things much quicker than before but not a "hang your hat on it" kind of feature. That said I am eager to be proven wrong. :geek: If they're anywhere near as useful as stated, then this is MAXON re-asserting leadership in the mograph field, which no one should blame them for. They want to hold on to that title of being the best mograph dcc out there. Nothing wrong with working on strong and weak edges in the same release.

     

    Woooweee. This one's big. I am beginning to think of it as MoGraph 2.0, but it's bigger than that.

     

    Fields aren't just for mograph!

     

    See this video for a little surface scratch of what it can do.

     

     

    The end of that video blew me away when I first saw it. I was just thinking of fields as a more powerful falloff, but they are so much more than that. You can use them to drive vertex maps, deformers, OpenVDB meshes, vertex colors, etc.

     

    Also, I didn't mention that they have cool things like growth, decay, and delay/spring stuff.  The power of these are really crazy. For a simple example, check out the procedural growth on this tree: 

     

    I wish everyone could have seen the live stream Chris Schmidt did today. He was just exploring the new version and the crazy, complicated stuff he was ending up with just goofing around with fields was really cool. Having multiple, animated fields moving around on one plane effector with springy delays and decays produced some wild results.

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