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  • Thanks everyone for your patience and help.   Your suggestions addressed some of my issues but not others. 


    For toggling the smoothing with Q  I had to delete my shortcut prefs as I had made some changes and assigned q to something else.


    The solution of putting a null under the subD node and then everything else under the null.  I guess that's a workaround. thought not very elegant.

    I mean all you need is two keys, 1 (not smoothed) 2 (smoothed)  What you have selected gets smoothed and what you don't doesn't. 

    It's not just different.  it's different because It's simple, smart, elegant & efficient.  Very different/


    As for using spacebar to exit extrusion (or any tool)  so it doesn't automatically repeat:  its not a practical solution as it changes

    the attribute manager essentially locking me out of making any changes forever.

    Apparently I get one chance to execute the tool and after that I have to manually punch in values.  

    And if you accidentally touch a keyboard key you're locked out.

    It's a completely illogical and ill thought out workflow especially since there's no construction history.

    I mean if you're not going to have a history stack then it might make sense to make finalization of a tool something very

    intentional instead automatic.

    Again not very smart.


    On a positive note I like their decision to make position and scale xyz to represent 3d space but rotation to represent aeroplane controls.  That was smart.

    The should have made the scale controls HWD for height, width  & depth.   That way each transform control could have it's own "innovative" terms.

    XYZ for position.  HWD for scale & HPB for roation.   Not sure why they didn't do it that way. 

    I also like that by default I have to execute 3 separate operation in order to get a vert (point) to snap to the grid.....and then another three to get them not to.  Brilliant.

    Maya stupidly made it so you just hold the X key when you want to snap...release when your done.  Soooo unintuitive.  You have to move your index finger all the way from the Alt key to the X key.  No wonder Maya is the hardest app to learn. 

    :)  Sorry for having infected your forums with  whatever this is.


    Out of curiosity I checked to see what "X" does in C4d.  Among other things it deletes your selection.  That's smart.  The key that deletes stuff is 3mms away from the key you rest your index finger over & press 50 times a minute.  Very logical.  


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    Have to say I'm wondering whether you're deliberately trolling this forum to wind people up or serious. If you don't like how C4D works then move on. A lot of people find modelling in C4D more than adequate.


    The default action for the X key in C4D is to toggle movement in the X axis on or off. It cuts the selection when combined with the Ctrl key. That's industry standard keyboard hotkeys so not sure what your problem is with it. Maybe you've messed up your hotkey mappings and assigned it to the delete function?


    Snapping in C4D is a bit clicky to set up the options but once done works well. Toggling snapping on and off can is assigned to Shift + S but it's easy to change it. One thing you may not have picked up yet is C4D support sticky keys. e.g. select some edges, press and hold down a hotkey, drag to perform some operation and then release the key. You go into that tool mode whilst the key is held down.


    To be honest I think you would be better off modelling in Modo like what I use. It has procedural polygon modelling and modelling actions are not repeated unless you middle mouse button click. Doing another extrude for example when the extrude tool is active requires a very deliberate shift click in the viewport. Until you do this the previous extrude can be edited with with the tool handles or in the tool settings. The X key in Modo toggles snapping on and off. Modo has sticky key functionality as well. Pressing the Tab key toggles Sub D surfaces on and off for selected objects. However just as you're not happy with C4D I'm sure Modo wouldn't meet your requirements either.

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    It does sound like you would not be happy with anything other than Maya, and your tone dissuades others from wanting to continue to help. For others: I strongly second the recommendation for the HB scripts. It is particularly good in preventing the left over points that is common with built in tools.

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    Proper symmetry modeling is probably now a Top 3 level request, given that we've received the nodal materials and MoGraph updates. In terms of "the things most in need of attention," symmetry workflow is right up there. Since the viewport / object management overhaul everyone wants — which I think most people would agree is #1 — probably will not and cannot happen in a single release, it's tough to argue against the idea that the Top 2 needs are improved UV workflow and tools, and improved symmetry workflow.


    R21 that offers major improvements in those two areas + further limited scope updates to viewport (continue improving multi-instance performance) and nodal materials (SSS stands out as the thing to add next), would be a game-changer for a lot of people and probably win back a few defectors (and earn a few converts). Trying to work with third party tools like 3D Coat or Zbrush as a supplement to C4D in these areas, it's not great — the UIs are so different that it can be pretty jarring. Ultimately the two major items above amount to "don't make me leave C4D just to finish core workflow tasks."

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    On 9/16/2018 at 2:17 PM, Fish said:

    The interface/UI isn't the problem.  Personally I find the UI's very similar.  Sure things have a different names and they're in different places but that can be overcome quickly.

    I'm talking about workflow.   An offhand example say I want symmetry.  In Maya I select my mesh in the viewport,  shift right click and choose symmetry.  Maya is smart enough to know I want symmetry on the selected object.  It's still doing the same thing C4d does.  It's creating the node and connecting it to the mesh but it does it for me.  If I want i can go into the nodes and do much than C4d can do but more often than not I just want symmetry on the selected object...so Maya does it, asks me which plane to cross and I'm  good to go.  When I'm done with symmetry I shift right click again and turn it off.   No need to drop the mesh out of the node then delete the node then re select the mesh .


    Same thing with smooth preview.  Smooth preview is something that gets turned on and off a million times when your modeling.  In C4d you have to create a node and drop the Mesh in.  Maya is smart enough to know that the object you have selected is the one you want smoothed.  To turn it on or off I just hit the 1 or 2 on the keyboard.  In C4d I have to create a node, I have to go to the object manager, drop the mesh into it and then click a tiny little radial button every time I want it on or off.   And BTW after I turn it on or off I now have to reselect what I was working on.   



    This is simply you not having the knowledge of how C4D works. If you want to toggle smoothing on or off simply hit Q on your keyboard. This works regardless of which object in the particular hierarchy you have selected and if you have the base mesh selected you don't have to reselect anything. The radial buttons are not meant for that at all but are meant to set overall visibility in the viewport and renderer. You only have to create the subd object once and then you just toggle with Q or click the checkmark, not the radio buttons, to switch on or off. You never have to drag stuff in and out of the hierarchy just to toggle smoothing.

    In C4D if you want to create an object like a symmetry or a subdivision surface as a parent to the selected object, just press and hold ALT when creating the symmetry or subsurface object. Again, no need to drag stuff manually in the object manager as you claim.


    The workflow of creating nulls to group objects under modifiers is not a "workaround", it's simply the way the system is designed to work.


    Many things can also be scripted for even faster use (HB Modelling tools has been mentioned already).


    Try actually learning a bit of C4D before making claims about the workflow. I'm sure in some things Maya is faster or better, but in many things C4D will be, or it will simply be a matter of preference, not speed or ease of use. And I have never used Maya so can't comment on it's ease of use from experience, only wanted to chime in some obvious misconceptions you have about working in C4D.

    I don't think C4D overall is considered to be the best modeller, but as far as I know it's certainly capable enough. Most expert modellers I see seem to be using 3DS MAX over Maya and I'm sure there's plenty of turf wars between those over which is best and they're both owned by the same company!

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