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Fish

Bunch-o-Questions

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Hi,

 

(maybe you should just skip to the final sentence)

I'm sorry I'm getting really frustrated this software.

I have a bunch of questions.

 

1) I thought I'd be clever and drop 4 meshes into one SubD node because my object manager is getting filled with Subdivision nodes, but it only recognizes the top mesh.   Is this really the modeling workflow for C4D?  If I have a model with 100 meshes I have to have 100 subD nodes cluttering up the object manager?  There's no global smooth preview?

 

2) Also is there a shortcut to drop meshes out of their hierarchy?  Like in maya it's shift+p (un-parent) ?  It's really distracting always having to go the object manger to drag things in and out of each other.

 

3) Is there a setting to stop tools from repeating themselves when I let go of the mouse button?  For example I do an extrude and then if I accidentally click again in the viewport it does a second extrude?  I would much prefer to have a hotkey to repeat last tool.  Or have the tools be intelligent enough to know which one Should auto repeat (like insert edge loops) and which onses shouldn;t (like extrude).   If I extrude and then drag immediatly drag a second time it should continue to tweak the current extrude, not start a new one.  I f I don't get it right the first time I have to go into the attribute manager and start doing it there?  OK, now I'm just compaining.  SOrry.

 

Which brings me to this....Is there a history stack?   Where i can go back to tool actions and adjust them after later?  Or I could go and find that accidental extrude and delete it?

 

Finally...and I don't mean to sound petulant or anything...but in Maya I can work endlessly without ever taking my left hand away from the SHIFT CTRL ALT SPACEBAR keys

and without ever moving my mouse away from the model.    In C4d I spend more time out of the display viewport than I do in it.   Even the shortcuts..."U"?  It's all the way on the other side of the keyboard?  Ultimately I would like to be able to model with only the viewport visible...in maya it's called "pro mode"  Every function is available with combinations of the  SHIFT CTRL ALT SPACEBAR & RIGHT Click.   I (pretty much) never have to move left hand .   

 

So does anyone know of a pro-mode or workflow tutorial WHere I'm not constantly having to clcik through menus or UI buttons tutorial .

 

Please someone explain to me why I should work this way?   Has anyone here had significant experience in Maya?  How did you adjust to these disruptive workflows?  Two button shortcuts? UB & UL?  For such commonly used functions?  Meanwhile the ability to jump back and forth between different project they put in the radial menu?  How often do you use that?  Then MT for extrude, which get's used constantly I have to move my hand all the way to the other side of the leyboard?@@ Grrrr.  WHat the heck!!   Who made these decisions? !!

 

END////////////////////////

 

OK...I'm sorry, and obviously frustrated.  Just for now can someone please tell me how to get all of these Subdivision nodes OUT of my object manager?  Please?

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1. Put a null object as child of the Subdivision object. Now all children of the subdivision object will be subdivided.

2. Open the "Customization Manager" and add the "Unparent" command to a toolbar

3. This is how C4D works. What you can do after doing a modelling operation is press the space bar. This toggles between the last used tool and the live selection tool. If you want to tweak settings you need to use the attributes manager and before you click in the viewport.

 

There is no history stack. C4D doesn't have procedural modelling. That said objects like extruded splines (Spline as a child of a Extrude object) can have their settings changed later.

 

Try right clicking in the viewport to get tools. You'll get a context sensitive menu. This cuts down on keyboard short cuts.

 

So dumb question. Why not stick with Maya?

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  • 48 minutes ago, 3DKiwi said:

     

     

    So dumb question. Why not stick with Maya?

    First thanks.  That's all really bery helpfull.  As well as post to some other dude about how to grab code from the script log.   Good stuff there,

     

    As for your NOT dumb question:

     

    I make my living with After Effects doing motion design and graphics & there's powerful integrations between the two application.

    Also C4D has very strong & stable MoGraph tools.   Maya does too, now, with the MASH module but MASH is not as stable as C4D.   Also Maya no longer has perpetual licensing.

    I think what I'm going to do is I am going to muscle through the model I'm currently working on in C4D but after that I will revert back to My old  (owned) copy of Maya 2013 for everything except mograph.    Heck...maybe I'll even take running jump at Blender.  I hear good things about it and it's only zero dollars a month :)

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    41 minutes ago, Fish said:

    Heck...maybe I'll even take running jump at Blender.  I hear good things about it and it's only zero dollars a month :)

    I think its moving along very well and Im going to invest a little time into it this year myself as the latest version looks to be moving in the right direction.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyjo29gQppU&t=253s

     

    Dan

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    Honestly, as with any jump in software there's going to be an adjustment phase, but C4D is one of the most innovative and user friendly packages out there, every time i've looked at maya as an alternative the ui instantly puts me off it's just ugly and needlessly complicated, same goes for blender although i believe the newest version is getting a ui overhaul, it's worth sticking with it honestly 

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  • 37 minutes ago, VECTOR said:

     C4D is one of the most innovative and user friendly packages out there,

    In what way?

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    1 hour ago, Fish said:

    In what way?

    I can't really tell if you're trolling by your tone, but for someone who's proficient with a good knowledge of maya, which is considered one of the hardest softwares to learn making a transition to cinema should be easy, the same can't be said in reverse, Cinema is way more user friendly, all you have to do is open the 2 programs and compare the user interface, the tools are straightforward to use and alot easier to understand, whilst still being extremely powerful, watch a couple of intro tutorials and you'll be off and running with cinema, back when i started 3d years ago, i got the demo literally watched one 15 minute tutorial on the basic's like extruding, loop selections etc and was able to basically go from there ,good luck doing that with maya, if cinema had animation tools on par with maya's there would be alot more people switching over, especially now with the lack of perpetual licensing, by your original post it seems like you've made your decision already 

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  • The interface/UI isn't the problem.  Personally I find the UI's very similar.  Sure things have a different names and they're in different places but that can be overcome quickly.

    I'm talking about workflow.   An offhand example say I want symmetry.  In Maya I select my mesh in the viewport,  shift right click and choose symmetry.  Maya is smart enough to know I want symmetry on the selected object.  It's still doing the same thing C4d does.  It's creating the node and connecting it to the mesh but it does it for me.  If I want i can go into the nodes and do much than C4d can do but more often than not I just want symmetry on the selected object...so Maya does it, asks me which plane to cross and I'm  good to go.  When I'm done with symmetry I shift right click again and turn it off.   No need to drop the mesh out of the node then delete the node then re select the mesh .

     

    Same thing with smooth preview.  Smooth preview is something that gets turned on and off a million times when your modeling.  In C4d you have to create a node and drop the Mesh in.  Maya is smart enough to know that the object you have selected is the one you want smoothed.  To turn it on or off I just hit the 1 or 2 on the keyboard.  In C4d I have to create a node, I have to go to the object manager, drop the mesh into it and then click a tiny little radial button every time I want it on or off.   And BTW after I turn it on or off I now have to reselect what I was working on.   

     

    There's tons of other examples.   Also once you learn to use mayas marking menus you can pretty much turn the entire UI off.   And access every aspect of via marking menues that function off of 3 hotkey combination that give different options depending what you have selected.

     

    I could teach you to use it it one hour.

     

    Then there's the fact that there's no construction history which is a deal breaker for any serious modeler.

    I know there's the whole "your first is the one you love" but seriously that's not the case here.  Maya is layed out in a more efficient and logical way and i quite certain I can prove it.

    Mayas whole pro workflow is based around radial menus.  C4d has ONE and the things they chose to put in it are ridiculous.  Open project?  Initialize plugin?  A radial menu should have the tools you use most...for the amount of times you open a second project during a work session it makes sense to have to go up to the proper menu to do that.  You don;t put that function right at your fingertips and then put the important stuff under bizzarre shorcuts that that all start with U or W.   U or W?  Who's idea was that?  I either have to mave my left hand to the other side of the keyboard or I have to take my left hand off of mouse.  

     

    Sure I can customize all that but the fact that it's set up that way by default speaks to the design flaws inherit.   In maya EVERYTHING is done through a brilliantly logical system using combinations of SHIFT, CTRL,  SPACEBAR & Right Click...of course ALT Left Click is navigation so the entire interface is literally right at your fingertips.

    There's no having to learn 50 differrent two letter combinations that you have mover your entire arm to reach.

     

    Maya's interface is WAY more intuitive, intelligent and faster.   Maya knows the difference between a key tap and a key hold...another reason why the entire tool set is put under your left hand without ever (hardly) having to move it from the position you navigate from.   Basically my experience so far with C4d after watching about 30 or 40 hours of Lynda training through my works group account is that it takes 2 or 3 or even more steps to do what Maya does in one.  Maya can be harder to learn because it goes much much deeper than  C4D.   If you want to get into connecting up nodes in custom ways and deep into the Attribute manager then yah...it goes way deeper than C4D.   If all your doing is basic modeling...extruding, inseting, sliding, offsetting, beveling, pushing, pulling, etc...than May slaughters C4D in workflow speed and efficiency.   Not to mention it's modeling toolset is unmatched.   Sure theres an occasional crash but that still 100x faster than dropping stuff in and out of nodes  & nulls all the time.  You spend half your time renaming generators  & effectors so your Object Manager doesn;t turn into a nightmare.   

     

    Nobody, in my opinion or that I know,  would leave Maya for C4d for any reason other than the price.   I'm trying because of the price and because I use the mograph module which is better than Maya's.  I figured if can get on board with the modeling module of C4d then I don't need two applications. 

    I'm not sure what your experience is working with other applications which is why I asked in what way you thought C4D was the most intuitive and innovative.

    I was hoping for some reasons other than you being comfortable with the UI.   I was hoping for some real reasons to stick with it.  The only reason I can think of sticking with modeling in in C4D would be to stick another feather in my cap, so to speak.  Looks good on a resume, you know.   But honestly....I'm the kind of guy that if I had an interview with a studio and they told me they use C4D in their modeling department?   i don;t know if i would want to work  for them.  lol.

     

    Yah...it has nothing to with the UI.

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    Stick with your Maya 2013 licence, its significantly further ahead in the modelling department, and Uvs, even the soft selection is way more advanced looking back on a 2010 video. I would not for the sole reasons of modelling alone choose C4D as my first hand choice, MODO would be my go to app for that as its much closer.  If your use for C4D is in other areas like Mograph,  basic level character work, then yea id see more reason for C4D.  A 3D generalist that cant afford Maya would be good to go within C4D once they add some additional plugins to the mix.

     

    Its a balancing act where ease of use can also mean lack of features, but too many features can be complex to the eye without the knowledge of why these features are there.  I would put C4D between the two and in some areas the lacking areas are huge for someone whom is used to having them there,  such areas are Symmetry, UVs, Axis modeling, history stack, and missing abilities to certain tools that you have come to expect as the norm such as real time feedback of soft selection once the deformation has taken place.

     

    As you may of noticed Im not bias to a particular tool, Im not suggesting anyone else is by the way but for me it either works as it should or it dont, and if it dont I wont use it.  

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    1) I thought I'd be clever and drop 4 meshes into one SubD node because my object manager is getting filled with Subdivision nodes, but it only recognizes the top mesh. 

    Put your items in a null.  The short cut key for turning hypernurb (SDS equivalent) on and off (toggle) is "Q"

     

    2) Also is there a shortcut to drop meshes out of their hierarchy?  Like in maya it's shift+p (un-parent) ?  It's really distracting always having to go the object manger to drag things in and out of each other.

    You can add a toolbar for "unparent". I use parenting and unparenting all the time just to adjust position or rotation of several objects at one time. After unparenting, they will keep their new position.

     

    3) Is there a setting to stop tools from repeating themselves when I let go of the mouse button? 

    spacebar

     

    4)....Is there a history stack?

    no. There are many procedural modeling options, but no history stack.

     

    It sounds from the discussion that you much prefer Maya. My favorite program was XSI, and it would be the one I would recommend for combining easy of modeling with mograph capabilities. It was logical, had a history stack, was very powerful, and .... is dead. I used Maya for awhile. It was much less intuitive than XSI for me, and was pretty unstable on a Mac and quite overpriced.  I would guess that you could learn to be much faster in C4D, but its strengths are different from Maya. Only recently did Maya have any real mograph capabilities. You had to write Mel scripts for many things that were easy in C4D. NPR rendering was worse by far than C4D. The company was greedy and stopped allowing you to purchase the software outright.

     

    As Dan pointed out somewhere, after you have used some software for several years, it can be a logistical nightmare to move over to a new program. There is not only the learning curve (and funds and time for tutorials), but you have hundreds of old models that don't export very well to other programs (especially if you want to keep some of the proprietary systems in your original program  that were procedural).  You also loose all the money you spent with plugins and addons to your original program. Your basic knowledge of polygon modeling carries over but the hundreds of tricks you've learned for keystrokes and workarounds is gone. In the end, money savings will be not nearly as much as you might have thought. On top of that, there is also the question of a software company's future. There were a lot of us that were sure Avid was secure with XSI (or was it Microsoft before that, or Autodesk after?). The most exciting program right now for me is Houdini. It would solve your issue with "history state" ;-)

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    56 minutes ago, 3DKiwi said:

    Proper symmetry modelling is one reason why I no longer use C4D. Here we are at R20 and it doesn't have proper symmetry modelling. 

    HHB Modelling scripts is now the only way to at least get part of that automated using what is still in place, true symmetry plugin wont work with R20 onward, but that wasnt a full solution either, but appreciated in either case.  Id recommend the HHB modelling scripts regardless of the symmetry automation because it helps do things that C4D should already be doing better.  Maya had a symmetry update in 2016 in one of their extensions which push it much further for general deformation and manipulation like retopology.  This is what id like to see for C4D.

     

    Dan

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