Jump to content


marmalade

MAXON Prices - Give us your feedback!

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

While I support the request for more affordable educational software licenses, I find nothing in your argument that justifies pirating software.  A starving person stealing a loaf of bread to survive is one thing, but C4D is a luxury.  Having it fulfills no basic minimum human need.  By itself, C4D  does not provide warmth, shelter or food.  It is a want, and not a need.  No one is "entitled" to it...plain and simple.   If they are stealing it, it is through greed and nothing more.  And don't give me the argument that they could use it to make money.  To be able to earn some income from it requires weeks if not years of  training, dedication, practice and skill.  You don't just steal it on Monday, open a business with it on Tuesday and start eating again on Wednesday.  Sorry, they are not stealing it to put food on the table. They just want it and as such I cannot justify any reason that makes its theft acceptable.

It does take years to get good enough.  This is why they pirate it.  It's very hard to get good enough at it with a 45 day trial.  They are thinking of making money with it in the future so they pirate it to seriously start learning it.  Now the hobbiest that uses C4D because they enjoy making stuff in 3D could just as easily use Blender.  Knowing that a program like Blender exists and still going through the pain of pirating C4D to do 3D as a hobby doesn't make sense because you still run the risk of viruses and having to go through all that hassle of downloading and key unlocking.  It's just easier as a hobbiest to use blender.  On the other side I know of no professionals using C4D that has a pirated copy.  This loss of money due to piracy is blown way out of proportion.

 

You also didn't even consider the little kids which don't qualify for the free educational version.  What about the kids that would like to learn?  The kids born to poorer parents that are living paycheck to paycheck.  When I say kids I mean under 16 years old that can't even get a job without a parents consent.  They don't really have a choice if they want to really get into learning C4D.

 

The ones that pirate it to learn are potential future buyers of C4D.  If I was in charge of C4D cafe I would not even question wheather they have a pirated copy or not.  They are trying to learn C4D and that means they are a potential future customer.  If we make it hard for children to learn C4D they will learn Blender, grow up, start making money with Blender, start a company with Blender, start hiring employees with the requirement that they know Blender.  C4D gets pushed out of the market.  For C4D to succeed 5 years down the road a low cost and free version needs to be available. 

 

If I was in charge of MAXON I would go so far as to make a free version of C4D that had all the same basic 3D tools of Blender.  Certain tools like the grease pencil would not be needed, but the basic ones for characters and such should be there.  Be very specific with it though.  Don't just keep them from using tools that Blender does not have keep them from using specific features of tools that Blender does not have.  For example the Bevel tool in Blender is not as good.  So you let them use the Bevel tool in the free version in a single mode just like is available in Blender.  Put a preview button in there with the tool so it would automatically save and reopen the file in c4d demo where they can't save, but could preview how they could use the Bevel tool if they were to pay for a paid version.  On top of that do some work on those basic tools so the tools would be so much better than Blender in every way.  So good anyone that used the free version could quickly see C4D is way better with many tools having that preview button.  This would be how you steal customers.  It would be some work to play catch up and surpass some of Blenders tools, but not only could Blender customers be stolen, but the current C4D customers would be happy that those basics work so well.  It would also keep any C4D customers from switching to Blender.  With a free version of C4D that does eveything Blender does they would simply go to using the free version.  On top of this have Cycles work with C4D officially maybe buying the plugin from Insydium if needed and sticking that in the free version.  Then dump Prorender all together.  Yes it sounds a bit crazy and would take a lot of work, but it could be a good long term goal.  For now going with the Houdini pricing scheme would be much less work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave if you are reading this, please keep the perpetual license model alive. C4d owes its popularity to the indie scene. I don’t mind paying my MSA every year as long as I can keep a copy of  c4D. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having CEO posting on Cafe is very reassuring and shows that MAXON is indeed changing for better. To reiterate, whatever is done, please don't kill perpetual license!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

Free educational version of Cinema 4D here:

 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/training/educational-solutions/educational-solutions/students/

 

Low cost student version with a few less restrictions also available.

 

I think what makes the Houdini pricing model inherently more fair is that many of us are learning outside of official educational institutions. Everything that I know about CGI, I learned online from forums like these, tutorial videos, and friends — in short I don't have a student ID but I don't know any other way to describe myself than a student. When I saw Houdini's Indie license model, I almost got tears in my eyes at the excitement of discovering a company who finally understood that the market is changing and there are many like myself who prefer to use a legit product but who, for various reasons, don't qualify for the student price and can't afford to pay the full price.

 

Regarding the topic of subscriptions (and Houdini Indie is a subscription), I don't really understand the aversion. In such a fast changing tech world, ownership might not be what it once meant. The MAXON "service contract" is for all intents and purposes a subscription…a pricey one at that. If C4D were to have a reasonable yearly subscription price (similar to the Adobe model), I think they would gain a hell of a lot more legitimate users. At the moment, I think C4D holds the dubious achievement of being the most-pirated DCC app out there.  Perhaps MAXON is ok with it similarly to the way Adobe was ok with it for a long time — but to me that's another short sighted way to look at a rapidly changing market and user base. I don't think that MAXON should give away their product for free, but I do hope they revise their pricing structure to offer a more appealing option to people who are still learning and/or are doing very low/no paying indie type of projects.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

Free educational version of Cinema 4D here:

 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/training/educational-solutions/educational-solutions/students/

 

Low cost student version with a few less restrictions also available.

The free version is restricted to select schools and the low cost version is too much for children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for education is demo version more than enough I think. If someone want to learn software (and later use it on commercial base),

MAXON Cinema4D demo has big benefit with demo - is not time-limited. For learning software enabling "Save" is not important if everything other works and user could "touch" every command and tool....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, bezo said:

Just for education is demo version more than enough I think. If someone want to learn software (and later use it on commercial base),

MAXON Cinema4D demo has big benefit with demo - is not time-limited. For learning software enabling "Save" is not important if everything other works and user could "touch" every command and tool....

When you very first start learning it's ok.  Later when you want to learn by making an actual project it's really hard because it can take several days to do something.  I remember way back when I first started with the demo version I would leave my computer on for days so I could keep working on what I started in C4D.  Then you can never load that project again after it's closed.  It's a bad way to learn.  With some things like advanced rigging and character animation it's impossible to learn with because you need to keep building on what you made before.  Even now I sometimes look back on projects I made because I forgot how I did something that I didn't use for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bezo said:

For learning software enabling "Save" is not important if everything other works and user could "touch" every command and tool....

 

I respectfully disagree and I think you're looking at the issue very narrowly. Houdini Apprentice offers full save functionality since they understand that people learning need to be able to save and pick up where they left off at another time. MAXON could consider offering an affordable entry point for indie/hobbyists/self-learners and look at the long-term benefits (i.e. we're building careers and will become future full-payingcustomers).

 

Then again, it might be too little too late. I think MAXON (and Autodesk) are hemorrhaging users to SideFX and Blender. I think Houdini is getting more user friendly with each revision, and the 3rd party add-on community is growing at a fast pace and addressing a lot of MoGraph demands with free tools such as MOPs. Blender in the meantime is leaving everyone else in the dust with viewport tech like EEVEE and a unique set of toon tools among other things. 

 

I believe this is exactly the type of feedback that MAXON needs to hear right now, before it becomes the next Lightwave!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...repeating the same task will teach you optimize your workflow, find faster ways to create something. If someone want to know how create character rig, then his first steps must be create very simple animations, understanding principles in basic things (which could be done in few moments instead of days), study the theory, tutorials and works of others and take the best things of all of them. If someone want to learn c4d with zero experiences in DCC, starting with advanced character rigging, it is very bad start. (just my opinion)

 

...but back to prices :)

Yes, as Nigel said, price for Studio is high. High for hobby users, not for "commercial" users, those are different category.

Can not say if modular system was wrong in business system, but for hobbiests was great.

One posible way could be system "rent-to-own" (perpetual licence ofcourse)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I am an educator and freelancer. Here are my thoughts. From what I have seen more students are striking out on their own as opposed to getting hired by studios and companies. Contract work is becoming more common and having to purchase something as expensive as C4d Studio can be difficult. While I know Cinema 4d and Adobe products are quite different, I wish Cinema 4d's price was more in line with Creative Cloud pricing and if you really compared what you get, I would argue it is quite comparable. Even something closer to what Houdini does would be an improvement. I also like what Octane was doing (before V4). I think perpetual licenses are important, but offering a subscription is also beneficial. I think there should be an advantage (either monetarily or feature-wise) for perpetual licenses, but nothing that is too drastic.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MAXON had a profit increase of 15% in 2017. Now you see why they do not need to lower prices. They are selling like S***.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×