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MAXON Prices - Give us your feedback!

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Hi Everyone,

 

As Igor said I am reading this topic and other forums.   Not much to add at this point but my goal is to get as many people as possible to have the ability to use MAXON's products.  It is my favorite 3D tool and I want all to have the opportunity to enjoy it.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

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12 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

I don't accept that. There are plenty of us hobbyists paying for our 3D software as we can afford it. What I spend on my 3D hobby is peanuts compared to my cycling hobby.

 

Studio is way over priced in my opinion. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to supplement it with X-Particles and some other UV editing and 3D painting software.

 

At the end of the day people should vote with their wallets and use / pay for whatever suits them. For me this is currently Modo but I'm tinkering with Blender as some things it does really well and of course it's free. It's certainly well worth keeping an eye on over the next few years.

 

Nigel / 3DKiwi

I'm also a hobbyist who didn't pirate the software. I really like C4D, but agree with you about the price. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to afford the upgrades. Bottom line

1. Don't penalize people for missing an upgrade. For goodness sake, be glad they're coming back!

2. Reduce the prices for hobbyists. I make nothing on anything I've produced. Usually, because it isn't that good. Lol. But those that make less than 50 or 100k would really appreciate the break too.

3. Please don't do away with the perpetual license. I never upgraded Photoshop since they went to a subscription, even though a friend boasts how wonderful it is. I won't even buy Houdini at 200+ a year because its subscription based.

 

Thanks for listening.

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13 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

I don't accept that. There are plenty of us hobbyists paying for our 3D software as we can afford it. What I spend on my 3D hobby is peanuts compared to my cycling hobby.

You are one of the fortunate.  At least in America there are a great deal of people in poverty that can't even afford luxuries like food and rent.  They will have a computer though, as it's needed for everything now a days, even getting a job.  There are also those that are going to a school, but don't have enough money even for the educational licence.  In America students graduate with huge student debt averaging $37,172.  I don't blame them if they pirate the software instead of paying the educational c4d price.  They could also be too young to legally get a job.  The free educational licence seems like a step in the right direction.  I'm not sure the hoops they have to jump through to get it, but from what I can gather only very specific schools qualify.  Long story short there are a lot of people that could start to learn C4D if there was a completely free version of C4D like Houdini has.  Free and low cost versions of C4D could also significantly reduce the amount of piracy.

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4 hours ago, Fastbee said:

You are one of the fortunate.  At least in America there are a great deal of people in poverty that can't even afford luxuries like food and rent.  They will have a computer though, as it's needed for everything now a days, even getting a job.  There are also those that are going to a school, but don't have enough money even for the educational licence.  In America students graduate with huge student debt averaging $37,172.  I don't blame them if they pirate the software instead of paying the educational c4d price.  They could also be too young to legally get a job.  The free educational licence seems like a step in the right direction.  I'm not sure the hoops they have to jump through to get it, but from what I can gather only very specific schools qualify.  Long story short there are a lot of people that could start to learn C4D if there was a completely free version of C4D like Houdini has.  Free and low cost versions of C4D could also significantly reduce the amount of piracy.

While I support the request for more affordable educational software licenses, I find nothing in your argument that justifies pirating software.  A starving person stealing a loaf of bread to survive is one thing, but C4D is a luxury.  Having it fulfills no basic minimum human need.  By itself, C4D  does not provide warmth, shelter or food.  It is a want, and not a need.  No one is "entitled" to it...plain and simple.   If they are stealing it, it is through greed and nothing more.  And don't give me the argument that they could use it to make money.  To be able to earn some income from it requires weeks if not years of  training, dedication, practice and skill.  You don't just steal it on Monday, open a business with it on Tuesday and start eating again on Wednesday.  Sorry, they are not stealing it to put food on the table. They just want it and as such I cannot justify any reason that makes its theft acceptable.

 

Now, I firmly believe that in all options for providing hobbyist or educational licenses, MAXON needs to generate some income.  I posted previously that hobbyist licenses should be resolution limited and there was push back.  Honestly, as a hobbyist, the most you should hope for is being able to render something that looks good on your PC's screen.  You do not need print or HD resolutions if you are a hobbyist.  If you want higher resolution, buy the full license.  Asking MAXON to offer the full package at a reduced price without reduced features is not a long term path to financial success for MAXON.   

 

...and believe it or not....I want MAXON to be financially successful.  I  want them to have enough cash to be here for the long term and hire top notch developers to continually grow the program.  Yes...I am a hobbyist and about 6 to 10 years from retirement.  C4D is going to be a big part of my retirement years so MAXON better be around for at least 40 more years until I am either too blind to see the monitor or too arthritic to hold the mouse!

 

if not, I am coming for you Dave....I am coming for you!!!! :lol:

 

Dave

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

While I support the request for more affordable educational software licenses, I find nothing in your argument that justifies pirating software.  A starving person stealing a loaf of bread to survive is one thing, but C4D is a luxury.  Having it fulfills no basic minimum human need.  By itself, C4D  does not provide warmth, shelter or food.  It is a want, and not a need.  No one is "entitled" to it...plain and simple.   If they are stealing it, it is through greed and nothing more.  And don't give me the argument that they could use it to make money.  To be able to earn some income from it requires weeks if not years of  training, dedication, practice and skill.  You don't just steal it on Monday, open a business with it on Tuesday and start eating again on Wednesday.  Sorry, they are not stealing it to put food on the table. They just want it and as such I cannot justify any reason that makes its theft acceptable.

It does take years to get good enough.  This is why they pirate it.  It's very hard to get good enough at it with a 45 day trial.  They are thinking of making money with it in the future so they pirate it to seriously start learning it.  Now the hobbiest that uses C4D because they enjoy making stuff in 3D could just as easily use Blender.  Knowing that a program like Blender exists and still going through the pain of pirating C4D to do 3D as a hobby doesn't make sense because you still run the risk of viruses and having to go through all that hassle of downloading and key unlocking.  It's just easier as a hobbiest to use blender.  On the other side I know of no professionals using C4D that has a pirated copy.  This loss of money due to piracy is blown way out of proportion.

 

You also didn't even consider the little kids which don't qualify for the free educational version.  What about the kids that would like to learn?  The kids born to poorer parents that are living paycheck to paycheck.  When I say kids I mean under 16 years old that can't even get a job without a parents consent.  They don't really have a choice if they want to really get into learning C4D.

 

The ones that pirate it to learn are potential future buyers of C4D.  If I was in charge of C4D cafe I would not even question wheather they have a pirated copy or not.  They are trying to learn C4D and that means they are a potential future customer.  If we make it hard for children to learn C4D they will learn Blender, grow up, start making money with Blender, start a company with Blender, start hiring employees with the requirement that they know Blender.  C4D gets pushed out of the market.  For C4D to succeed 5 years down the road a low cost and free version needs to be available. 

 

If I was in charge of MAXON I would go so far as to make a free version of C4D that had all the same basic 3D tools of Blender.  Certain tools like the grease pencil would not be needed, but the basic ones for characters and such should be there.  Be very specific with it though.  Don't just keep them from using tools that Blender does not have keep them from using specific features of tools that Blender does not have.  For example the Bevel tool in Blender is not as good.  So you let them use the Bevel tool in the free version in a single mode just like is available in Blender.  Put a preview button in there with the tool so it would automatically save and reopen the file in c4d demo where they can't save, but could preview how they could use the Bevel tool if they were to pay for a paid version.  On top of that do some work on those basic tools so the tools would be so much better than Blender in every way.  So good anyone that used the free version could quickly see C4D is way better with many tools having that preview button.  This would be how you steal customers.  It would be some work to play catch up and surpass some of Blenders tools, but not only could Blender customers be stolen, but the current C4D customers would be happy that those basics work so well.  It would also keep any C4D customers from switching to Blender.  With a free version of C4D that does eveything Blender does they would simply go to using the free version.  On top of this have Cycles work with C4D officially maybe buying the plugin from Insydium if needed and sticking that in the free version.  Then dump Prorender all together.  Yes it sounds a bit crazy and would take a lot of work, but it could be a good long term goal.  For now going with the Houdini pricing scheme would be much less work.

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Dave if you are reading this, please keep the perpetual license model alive. C4d owes its popularity to the indie scene. I don’t mind paying my MSA every year as long as I can keep a copy of  c4D. 

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Having CEO posting on Cafe is very reassuring and shows that MAXON is indeed changing for better. To reiterate, whatever is done, please don't kill perpetual license!

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14 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

Free educational version of Cinema 4D here:

 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/training/educational-solutions/educational-solutions/students/

 

Low cost student version with a few less restrictions also available.

 

I think what makes the Houdini pricing model inherently more fair is that many of us are learning outside of official educational institutions. Everything that I know about CGI, I learned online from forums like these, tutorial videos, and friends — in short I don't have a student ID but I don't know any other way to describe myself than a student. When I saw Houdini's Indie license model, I almost got tears in my eyes at the excitement of discovering a company who finally understood that the market is changing and there are many like myself who prefer to use a legit product but who, for various reasons, don't qualify for the student price and can't afford to pay the full price.

 

Regarding the topic of subscriptions (and Houdini Indie is a subscription), I don't really understand the aversion. In such a fast changing tech world, ownership might not be what it once meant. The MAXON "service contract" is for all intents and purposes a subscription…a pricey one at that. If C4D were to have a reasonable yearly subscription price (similar to the Adobe model), I think they would gain a hell of a lot more legitimate users. At the moment, I think C4D holds the dubious achievement of being the most-pirated DCC app out there.  Perhaps MAXON is ok with it similarly to the way Adobe was ok with it for a long time — but to me that's another short sighted way to look at a rapidly changing market and user base. I don't think that MAXON should give away their product for free, but I do hope they revise their pricing structure to offer a more appealing option to people who are still learning and/or are doing very low/no paying indie type of projects.

 

 

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16 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

Free educational version of Cinema 4D here:

 

https://www.MAXON.net/en/training/educational-solutions/educational-solutions/students/

 

Low cost student version with a few less restrictions also available.

The free version is restricted to select schools and the low cost version is too much for children.

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