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jarombra

Looking for a comprehensive char tut

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Can anyone recommend a comprehensive character design tutorial for C4D that involves modeling, texturing, rigging, posing, and rendering all together?

 

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Hi

 

As you may have noticed you will have  not found what your looking for and there is good reason for this.  While Modeling, texturing, Uv mapping, sculpting, rigging, posing, rendering can all be done all in some 3D applications your find that a professional pipeline is normally using multiple applications this is one of the reason why you dont see such training as the tutor would have to assume the  Student will also have that same combo of applications which will limit sales for such training.  The second reason is its a massive job to undertake because each area you mentioned is a skill set within itself and takes days, weeks for each stage normally done by multiple artists within the whole pipeline.  Your not talking about a tutorial here your talking about volumes.  The next thing is character work is likely to be done mainly in Maya and even although some who use it dont like it they have no choice because the studio pipeline is built around that with many scripts built for it.  For someone to take on such a huge job alone to make such a tutorial your most likely find it for Maya but even Maya users will use Mudbox, Zbrush, 3Dcoat, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Substance Painter/Designer, Unfold3D and your get different combos of these.  I use C4D for modelling ,base sculpting, Rigging, posing, hair.  Uv Mapping its hard to beat Unfold3D.  Sculpting Zbrush, Clothing rather new to my pipline is Marvelous Designer, Texturing Substance painter, Zbrush and Photoshop.  Rendering Vray or Redshift.  If I was forced to teach the whole process all in C4D I would not enjoy the process as much as using  my individual apps and the results would not be close to as refined, in fact I did just that for my first project in C4D.

 

Now the good news is you can find this training but it will be as separate tutorials often made by different artists.  You can learn these and bolt these skill sets together.  Modelling will take some time to learn to get decent at it.  You can learn from almost any 3d application for modelling as the tools or equivalent can be found in most 3d applications.  Your naturally have to learn Uv mapping, that again needs practice and your modelling skills will make it easier for that process as you get better.  Your find texturing tutorials mainly in Mari, Substance painter, Photoshop, but you can learn Bodypaint and get reasonable results depending what your aiming for, realistic or cartoon.  Rigging, well if you dont want to get too deep into that then C4D Studio has its own character builder which you can use, or Mixamo online can rig for you, but if you intend to learn to rig too your have your work cut out for you if learning all them other skill sets also.

 

As I dont know your current skill and experience level I cant assume where your coming from, but if your a total beginner you may well not realise just how huge of a job it is to create a character from scratch and do the Uv, texturing, sculpting, rigging, servicing, lighting, and rendering.  There is allot to learn in them areas, years so if your a total beginner id start with just modelling alone.  If you have experience in modelling but not character modeling then your half way there.  On Cinivercity there is enough tutorials on there for you to get through most of what your after but some areas in C4D are not up to the industry individual apps out there that can do a better job such as Uv mapping, texturing, sculpting, but it is capable.

 

Dan

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  • Thanks for the response @Rectro -- I am a solid intermediate I'd say, switching over from Modo. I learned the full character pipeline in Modo from this nice tutorial that covered everything, albeit synoptically, that I mentioned above (modeling-texturing-rigging-posing-rendering). I'm sure I can get everything I need out of C4D in regards to these individual tasks, as I am not looking to be a pro at any particular step; rather just hoping for a comprehensive single tutorial that covers all the bases in C4D. But if that doesn't exist (yet) I have little doubt that I can piece together resources between YouTube and Cineversity.

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    Hi

     

    Yes that tutorial is a nice one, I havent got it myself but I too came from Modo and can tell you that what he does in that tutorial you can do in C4D but your be in the same position I was in when I came to C4D in that you have access to MODO good Uv tools.  C4D can make a character like that with ease only if you have Studio your have access to a much better hair system and Character rigging tool set that comes with C4D studio native.  I have Modo ACS Kit 2, thats also a nice rigging tool set.  You can get the principles of what you learnt from MODO and bring over to C4D.  As I dont own the tutorial in question I cant compare the methods used but can say your get the results that you get in Modo and better if using C4D hair system.

     

    If you venture into trying to translate the tutorial into C4D then there is help on this cafe that can help. Do you own both Modo and C4D, how much experience do you have in C4D?  When I came over from Modo to C4D I pretty much found all the modeling tools I needed but there are a few gotchas in C4D compared to Modo.  If you own Modo and have complete this tutorial and got the desired results what is it that makes you wish to do the same thing in C4D?

     

    Dan

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  • @Rectro I totally agree that that Modo tutorial and my general Modo heuristics (i.e. rules of thumb and processes) are already translating to my new C4D workflows; not without some headaches of course.

     

    I might continue to model in Modo but I'd like to try and stay as holistically engrossed in C4D as I can for the next year, doing all the soup-to-nuts in one package: C4D. The main reason I got C4D is because I saw many examples of short-form stylized animation made in C4D that was almost exactly what I wanted to get more involved in. Modo has a decent native cel-shader and a supplementary NPR kit, but it's nowhere near as sophisticated as C4D's artistic NPR shaders (feel free to disagree with me and induce buyer's remorse). I really wish I could have stayed in Modo due to its familiar modeling flow -- does that yearning go away? Will I soon prefer C4D's modeling flow coming from Modo?

     

    I also got a bit coerced from all my friends in the LA GFX/Animation industry who kept saying, "Just get C4D like the rest of us."

     

    EDIT: So yeah, much to the chagrin of my bank account, I now maintain three licenses: Rhino, Modo, and C4D. I've always fantasized about using just one (expensive as heck) 3D software, but I guess that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

     

    EDIT 2: @Rectro What were your reasons for leaving/supplementing Modo with C4D?

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    1 hour ago, jarombra said:

    Will I soon prefer C4D's modeling flow coming from Modo?

    I used to think Max was the perfect modelling interface and couldn't imagine any other way of doing things, but when I switched to Cinema my eyes were opened to a better way of doing most things and a far nicer interface, at the expense of some slightly crucial tools, which MAXON have been working hard to catch up with ever since. Long story short, I am as comfortable now in Cinema as I ever was in Max, and still find it the most pleasing of all the modelling environments. So I imagine it will be the same for you - bit shaky initially, and some tools you'll miss, but soon you'll be flying round that program  like you've been in it for years, and you will have found ways round most initial limitations...

     

    Not proper edge and face constraints though, Set Flow or OpenSubDiv that works with UV mapped objects. I'll never stop missing those til MAXON includes them :)

    At least we can do falloff-based modelling now using fields, and the volume builder is infinitely superior to our aging horrible boolean tools; that's two off the list quite recently ! And we mustn't forget Voronoi fracture, and that excellent bevel tool / deformer - arguably the best of anybody's, and the new, vastly better knife tools that were rewritten for R18... they are well on the way to getting their modelling sh1t together :)

     

    CBR

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    5 hours ago, jarombra said:

    @Rectro I totally agree that that Modo tutorial and my general Modo heuristics (i.e. rules of thumb and processes) are already translating to my new C4D workflows; not without some headaches of course.

     

    I might continue to model in Modo but I'd like to try and stay as holistically engrossed in C4D as I can for the next year, doing all the soup-to-nuts in one package: C4D. The main reason I got C4D is because I saw many examples of short-form stylized animation made in C4D that was almost exactly what I wanted to get more involved in. Modo has a decent native cel-shader and a supplementary NPR kit, but it's nowhere near as sophisticated as C4D's artistic NPR shaders (feel free to disagree with me and induce buyer's remorse). I really wish I could have stayed in Modo due to its familiar modeling flow -- does that yearning go away? Will I soon prefer C4D's modeling flow coming from Modo?

     

    I also got a bit coerced from all my friends in the LA GFX/Animation industry who kept saying, "Just get C4D like the rest of us."

     

    EDIT: So yeah, much to the chagrin of my bank account, I now maintain three licenses: Rhino, Modo, and C4D. I've always fantasized about using just one (expensive as heck) 3D software, but I guess that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

     

    EDIT 2: @Rectro What were your reasons for leaving/supplementing Modo with C4D?

    When having both Modo and C4D at hand your have all you need.  For each program there is a set of good and not so good areas and in the case of these two apps this is how I compare them and why I got C4D in the first place, Il try to keep this short as possible.

     

    I originally came from Hexagon made by DAZ3D.  It was a modeller and nothing more, but its dam fast.  I was a beta tester for DAZ3D at the time and it was going to be further developed but that didn't happen.  I got MODO at a huge discount price soon after.  As I mainly like to model organics I found right away that MODO felt more suited to Hard Surface modelling and that it often made me take many steps to perform what I would perform in Hexagon in 1 or 2.  I thought Id get over this but I never did, it felt so mechanical to work in MODO hence why I felt for Hard Surface its perfect, still I kept with it for some years. 

     

    As time went on it got some awesome updates but that came at a cost of being very crash prone and a pattern also started to emerge.  The preview demo videos showed features that sold me the updates prior to their release, but in use these features felt barely out of beta, and felt like it was made to make you work hard to get half decent results, in other words not very intuitive and very limited.  Now time is going by and each year I hope for some crucial features, ones that work out the box so to speak.  Hair, Skin, Rigging, and NLA.  Hair came but it was so slow and awkward to use, and the render times where insane to say the least.  The skin shader came, I was happy to get this but needed that hair system to get a update like its sculpting tools and texturing which where at the time very slow too but that didn't happen, instead the feature set just got less and less appealing each year and still no rigging or NLA.  Then the  ACS kit came out and I jumped on it, that was a sure way into getting my character rigged, but without Non Linear Animation I wont be making any short animations, at best id be making a asset to be animated in other packages or just pose a character with very bad looking hair.

     

    Looking over the fence at Maya I felt tempted to just jump ship but the cost was way too much for a perpetual licence and they had a limited time to get such a licence, then they had you over a barrel for maintenance.  I had looked at C4D many, many times for years but the costs and lack of three things stopped me moving onto it.  1: No dedicated skin shader like in Modo, 2: No Auto rigging, and 3:  No IPR.  I kept coming back with my obsession on skin asking for any updates but the examples shown where not much past Carrara or poser which was certainly not where I was heading.  In the end when it got to around C4D r16 till  I took another look at C4D and decided to give the demo a very good go over.  Within one day I felt like I was home.  It was missing some very important things compared to Modo yet I still felt more compelled to stay in C4D from only one week of a demo than years in MODO because to me it felt too clinical to doing things.  I looked into the possibilities and decided that C4D is as close I will ever get to Maya which really Maya was more ideal for a team in a studio than a freelancer.

     

    So what made me jump from Modo to C4D in such a short time of trying it out?  Simplicity, flexibility, stability, expandability, fair licence options including the ability to buy and sell and used licence and having perpetual options.  The hair system in C4D was just in a league of its own compared to MODO in every single way including the sheer speed of how it can render it.  The Character tool is great in most ways other than Mocap retargeting.  Thats the good stuff, here is the downfalls.  Very old school method of modeling in symmetry still a pain in the neck to this day, the action centres in MODO which I got used to where just gone, very limited in this area, and no macro which I used allot to make my own tools in MODO.  The skin is only good for Cartoon, and there is no IPR, the MODO render engine compared is faster in many cases and with the IPR the iterations where much less.  I did however have the opportunity to get Vray, and that for me was a game changer.   A few plugins and it was almost complete.  I find C4D much more welcoming, intuitive to use, and for organics feel right at home with it.  Its sculpting tools where also much better than Modo to the point I use them in every single modelling session.

     

    I think C4D is heading in the right direction and that its the best solution for a freelance right now.

     

    Dan

     

     

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