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Can Cinema have a better payment model?

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So I am looking at the pricing on Cinema...

 

I currently freelance ( for past 10 years) for a medical company and do all their in-house training animations however they have decided to get in a 3d Student ( Bosses son to do them instead) which is fine - I'll be helping them out I am sure.  

 

Studio only - I understand the reason for Lite / Education versions, but really do understand fragmenting the Range. It only creates  confusion!  Does anyone even buy Broadcast/Visualize?  Personally I think they should only have Studio but hey ho....


I missed out on the £900 any version > 20 studio upgrade discount  (not that I could find an old Version to buy) which is annoying

 

So this is what I have worked out: 

Option 1:  Buy it then MSA - Big initial outlay then a reasonable amount per year
£2850 Perpetual 

£525 MSA per year  / £43.75 a month. 

Over 3 years: 

£4425

Over 5 years: 

£5475


Option 2: Rent it -  

£900 for 6 Month Rental 

£1800 a year

£150 a month 

Over 3 years: 
£5400

Over 5 Year: 

£9000

But no MSA / Cinversity another $295 yr1 then $95 a year.  So approx 9500 over 5 years. 

So Buying it is the way to go?  You can resale if needed/retire I understand?

Do you guys think with the new CEO they might change the whole payments to Subscriptions or something different? 

Anyone have any inside knowledge about upcoming flash sales?  they have been 30% 1 day sales for the past few years around end of April / early may.

 

Thanks

 

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The rental option is meant for studios that need  a few more seats for a limited time in a specific project, it was never meant as a long time offer for single artists.

The fragmentation is part of the idea to offer Cinema 4D on different levels to different customer groups, something that has been done since R5 in various ways. The current system is a lot less fragmented than the modular system we had before.

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  • I do remember being really confused with the old modules system - But do people buy the other options?  Such weird pricing with different bits missing from Prime, Visualise, Broadcast. 

    I am all for paying the right money for development etc  - but it is about cashflow for me and a lot of freelancers I suppose.  £150 a month is managable but 3K quite a chunk of change in one go - and pretty hard to swallow with Houdini Indie @ $269 1yr/@$399 2yr which is the full app with only a couple of small limitations.  

    You don't even get the MSA for the first year for free... so potentially you can have the previous version after only a short period. 

    There could be a freelance version which is single seat Studio without network rendering - with a max earning thing like Houdini / Unity for like 1K a year. 

     

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    I must say that I think the pricing/features could be streamlined too.

     

    I would think you could break it into 3 strands:

    1. Education: The cheapest version available to those with certification that they are a student. Available as the full 'Studio' product but with some limitations (max 3 years, resolution size cap, single render node?)

    2. Indy: Mid-priced available to low billing (under €70k) freelancers, hobbyists. Available as the full 'Studio' product but with some limitations (single render node, limited support etc.)

    3. Full version: everyone else, ie Pro freelancers & businesses & institutions. This must surely be the bulk of who pays for C4D anyway.

     

    I don't really see the point of cutting down the products capabilities, this is what sells the product. Especially as many people are already paying for a separate 3rd party renderer and particle solutions. 

     

    As learning any 3D app is a big time commitment, it's better to get people using your product the earlier the better. Then they're less likely to switch later. The Indy/Education tiers should be thought of as an investment in consumers rather than an economic loss.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • The best thing adobe did to stop fragmentation and version headaches did was use the subscription model. No one has any reason to not be up to date and using the same software*  MSA is MAXON’s subs basically with high upfront cost but feature limitation is not the way to do it. 

     

    Unity has a good model but I am not sure how you PROVE your earnings to them? The honour system? 

     

    *They should have a cheaper per app cost tho to create a custom bundle... I never use the web stuff for example. 

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    I will play devils advocate here.  I am a fan of the tiered system.  I run Broadcast and for my work, it covers everything I need.  I work in Entertainment (live music and television) and don't need Hair or Dynamics or Cloth (have Marvelous).  So I'm thrilled that I can buy in for $1695 instead of $3695 for features I don't use.  That $2K savings has bought me Marvelous Designer, Corona, Redshift and tons of models, material packs and training.  Also - my MSA is only $400 a year.  Everyones workflow and needs are different - just offering a different point of view.

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  • On 4/16/2019 at 11:42 PM, EAlexander said:

    I will play devils advocate here.  I am a fan of the tiered system.  I run Broadcast and for my work, it covers everything I need.  I work in Entertainment (live music and television) and don't need Hair or Dynamics or Cloth (have Marvelous).  So I'm thrilled that I can buy in for $1695 instead of $3695 for features I don't use.  That $2K savings has bought me Marvelous Designer, Corona, Redshift and tons of models, material packs and training.  Also - my MSA is only $400 a year.  Everyones workflow and needs are different - just offering a different point of view.

     

    All great points!  I just wish it was one product.  I've been into studios that have Visualise and no MoGraph was a real pain.  Also means you can't open a standard C4D file everywhere... so fragments your users. 

    That said - decent sale on 7th may 2019 ... https://www.MAXON.net/en/news/MAXON-news/article/Flash-Sale-30-Off-New-Licenses/?fbclid=IwAR02QkNxo8z-NuIGEYOEhe2f-whOojRJ0xDKkLimQquvAka4LCjNunPfCLc

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    I have been hoping for this for years and I think with the new CEO (especially since he's coming from Adobe Background) we might FINALLY get a different pricing structure and / or subscription models. The current pricing is just not appropriate anymore and increadibly outdated when most companies in the industry offer way better and more flexible solutions. I think part of the problem is MAXON being a german entity; many companies in this county are notoriously slow to adapt to market changes and very stuck in their own ways. OTOY, Allegorithmic, SideFX and many more all offer either affordable subscriptions or different price tears depending on revenue.

     

    Let's be honest now, if you're not a student, what possibilities do you have if you want to learn Cinema besides pirating it? Even if you just need the features of Prime (which most people think is not nearly enough, me included) ~800€ is a LOT of money and I personally know many people that either started with Blender as a consequence or just forgot about trying 3D as a consequence. I cannot possibly imagine that MAXON makes more money with this approach when they could offer affordable Indie / Subscription licenses for everybody. Big studios would still need to buy the expensive versions due to revenue, life would be way easier for freelancers and there would be a lot of people trying C4D just because they can pay a small monthly fee to see if it sticks. We all know how hard it is to switch the Software once you've used one for years and yeah, if I had started out with Blender at the time I would not use C4D now.

     

    It's time for a change.

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    I bought in at the end of last year when they had a 30% off sale and then got some extra discounts from having Modo and Adobe apps. I can't remember the exact amount I saved but it was around $1000 I think. It's definitely expensive, but I couldn't handle Modo constantly crashing on me anymore. I also got the X-Particles and Cycles4d combo a few months ago when Insydium had a sale. I've rented a couple months of Octane for a job, but I'd like to eventually get a license for Redshift and Forester. But both of these are more in the "want to have" category rather than a "need to have". 

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    Since I'm hoping back into the Cinema train, the only way I could find to start studying it again was to subscribe to FXPHD and get full studio for non-commercial work and save capabilities (come on MAXON!!!).

     

    I wish we had a cheaper Indie license that like one I own for Substance.

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    8 hours ago, MauricioPC said:

    Since I'm hoping back into the Cinema train, the only way I could find to start studying it again was to subscribe to FXPHD and get full studio for non-commercial work and save capabilities (come on MAXON!!!).

     

    I wish we had a cheaper Indie license that like one I own for Substance.

    yes on needing an Indie license or some such. Houdini Indie (which I now use) is only restricted if you make less than $100K with it. its cost is annual fee of $269 a year or $400 for two years. if you lapse, the software reverts back to Apprentice (free) and you are restricted in exporting to FBX, render resolution and I believe watermark. if you go two years then renew you don't get screwed, it is still $269 to get back into Indie.  I feel this is where MAXON should really change its policy by not punishing so expensively if you skip two or three years of MSA. 

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    Totally agree bob. It is definitely nice to return to C4D for playing a bit.

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