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Freemorpheme

Can this model be fixed

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Knowledge is the key, and if you're armed with it you can be the one that is in control where and when you add or allow triangles,  Ngons and Pols.  Fixing a bad complex model takes longer in many cases than to build it from scratch.  Adopting good modeling practices in your personal work while it will initially take longer will in the long run work to your advantage.  There are times where you just can't get away with it and its not all down to having a list of dos and don'ts but also experience by seeking better ways and in all cases aiming for quad topology will take the pain out of the unexpected which can end up taking you longer to fix  than to have modeled it correct way in the long run.

 

With Retopology you still need good modeling knowledge and can take a very long time to do, you also need a good set of retopo tools, Modo is my choice for this method. I only use retopo when I don't have a set design down so I sculpt first then retopo secondly.  If I have a design down in 2d form I always model it outright, its faster.

 

Dan

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  • 1 minute ago, Rectro said:

    you also need a good set of retopo tools

    What would the equivalent of these tools be in C4D? Would any of them be useful in a hard surface model, or are you speaking about organic modelling only? 

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    5 minutes ago, Freemorpheme said:

    What would the equivalent of these tools be in C4D? Would any of them be useful in a hard surface model, or are you speaking about organic modelling only? 

    The polygon pen is its retopo tools, but you can get much better use with HHB modeling tools scripts. C4D polygon pen for retopo is very capable, iv done complete human models with it but has some missing features within its toolset like a quick tesselation which is essential.  Relax I have to use the Iron tool but it needs to be within the same toolset and lacks freeze borders.  Blender has a topo tool set which is not for free but looks awesome.  Topogun I found awkward, and 3Dcoat is very good retopo tools.  Also remember that good topo also aids the Uvs as to the edges that are selectable fir seams.

     

     

    Dan

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  • Thanks. I certainly see my next stop will be the Youtube request thread as I have no idea what any of that meant. :)

     

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    17 hours ago, Freemorpheme said:

    I have seen people kind of painting new polys onto a horrible mesh, is this a viable technique? Or is this a very niche technique?

    Yes, that's not only a viable technique but the primary method we use to do this ! You have got to know where to put the loops obviously :) But HB modelling bundle is much better than Polypen alone because it has updatable re-projection, and can smooth whilst preserving shapes and boundaries, which no tool in Cinema currently can.

     

    CBR

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    1 minute ago, Freemorpheme said:

    Thanks. I certainly see my next stop will be the Youtube request thread as I have no idea what any of that meant. :)

     

    If you need further explanation, maybe more visually just ask.  Here is a video I made a while back showing C4D own retopo tools, the polygon pen.

     

     

    Dan

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    One thing to keep in mind, is if you're using this model in a render of some kind, the how does it render? Not one single client cares what a mesh looks like if they only see the final result. If you're delivering a model to a client, then yes, the poop emoji may come into play. In fact, some render engines, like Corona, have a very nice feature you can use in the bump channel. It's called RoundEdges and will make a model like that, bad polys and all, look amazing with subtle bevel at every joint.

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    I wish I had my laptop with me so I could show you all what happens when you abandon the quad religion/cult/secret society, got sent something a week or so ago that almost made me drop my crumpets! Butter side down I might add! I can understand the mind set that leaving this ngon, tri or pole in here is gonna be faster and get the client his toaster model sooner for his hovis bread advert, but to that I say, just get better at modelling ? If modelling is your main area of expertise, like @Cerberayou can model stuff in quads, fast. If someones coming to you for a model, and you're handing over something full of triangles and n gons, regardless of whether it effects the performance of the model, is like presenting a lasagna to a diner at a restaurant that's just been slapped on the plate, "plating up the food is faster this way, don't worry it looks like c*ap but it tastes good!" What's the chances of that person coming back to your restaurant even if it tastes fine, the fact you presented it to a paying customer in that state in the first place says worlds about you, triangulation after is another story but to just hand over stuff like that when it could be easily cleaned up etc is just lazy.

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    2 hours ago, VECTOR said:

    I wish I had my laptop with me so I could show you all what happens when you abandon the quad religion/cult/secret society, got sent something a week or so ago that almost made me drop my crumpets! Butter side down I might add! I can understand the mind set that leaving this ngon, tri or pole in here is gonna be faster and get the client his toaster model sooner for his hovis bread advert, but to that I say, just get better at modelling ? If modelling is your main area of expertise, like @Cerberayou can model stuff in quads, fast. If someones coming to you for a model, and you're handing over something full of triangles and n gons, regardless of whether it effects the performance of the model, is like presenting a lasagna to a diner at a restaurant that's just been slapped on the plate, "plating up the food is faster this way, don't worry it looks like c*ap but it tastes good!" What's the chances of that person coming back to your restaurant even if it tastes fine, the fact you presented it to a paying customer in that state in the first place says worlds about you, triangulation after is another story but to just hand over stuff like that when it could be easily cleaned up etc is just lazy.

    i think i know the model you're talking about :D

     

    what you and jay tend to miss in your argumentation: unless you work for a studio or another freelancer who needs to process the model further, the client is usually not going to see the topology at all. and if the rendered result looks identical, the client is under the impression he just ate a 5 star meal, when in fact he ate an industrial ready-meal. the thing is, the ready meal is much cheaper to produce, and if the client doesn't taste the difference anyways, why bother? my clients always come back, and i'm feeding them turds all day, if we wanna stay with the analogies here. ;)

     

    when i model something, i also model everything quads usually. especially when it comes to organic shapes. for hard surface objects, well sometimes it's just faster to simply extrude an illustrator shape or even boole something (if it's not a hero model). also for props i often just buy stuff from turbosquid for a couple of dollars, and the topo is often more than crappy. but it allows me to get things done fast.

     

    another example: if you do product visualisation jobs, most of the time you get handed CAD files, after converting them you are faced with a mess of ngons, unconnected geo, triangles, you name it. some edges probably won't be bevelled. but hey, there are a couple of tricks, we have a pretty versatile bevel deformer, bevel shading solutions and so on. so you can make that model ready to render in like an hour. retopo of some of the products i'm usually handling (it's mostly audio and professional lighting equipment, so really complex shapes and a lot of  individual parts) it would take like a week to model. the client just wants a pretty render. and the client certainly doesn't want to pay for a week of modelling.

     

    so your "religion" shouldn't be quads, it should always be efficiency. whatever gets the job done the quickest while keeping the end result the same, you should choose. nowadays that's the only way you can be successful as a freelancer. and while ngons and tris are awful to look at, i love the fact that they are there.

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    You're a non believer thus are talking non sense and are clearly biased towards things uneven and pointy ;) if you get handed a turd, or buy a turd for a nice render, that's one thing but I'd never hand over a turd of my own creation, if someone approaches me for a model, then they are paying for my services and said skills to model said object, if they just want a shiny toaster render they can have your cheap turbo squid model ;) if we're talking strictly as a modeller rather than a freelancing generalist who's being paid to produce a final image from scratch etc, if you're working as a modeller then theres a good chance you're passing that mesh on to someone else to do further work/modifications etc, if you're just handing over a final render, extrude a spline all day long I don't care, I'll sleep like a baby at night knowing it's made up of all things 4 sided and regular :D

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    36 minutes ago, VECTOR said:

    You're a non believer thus are talking non sense and are clearly biased towards things uneven and pointy ;) if you get handed a turd, or buy a turd for a nice render, that's one thing but I'd never hand over a turd of my own creation, if someone approaches me for a model, then they are paying for my services and said skills to model said object, if they just want a shiny toaster render they can have your cheap turbo squid model ;) if we're talking strictly as a modeller rather than a freelancing generalist who's being paid to produce a final image from scratch etc, if you're working as a modeller then theres a good chance you're passing that mesh on to someone else to do further work/modifications etc, if you're just handing over a final render, extrude a spline all day long I don't care, I'll sleep like a baby at night knowing it's made up of all things 4 sided and regular :D

    :D i knew i would trigger you with this.

     

    but i agree, if you're hired as a modeller by a studio, you should deliver a proper model, no doubt. thought that was pretty clear from what i was saying.

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    2 minutes ago, everfresh said:

    :D i knew i would trigger you with this.

     

    but i agree, if you're hired as a modeller by a studio, you should deliver a proper model, no doubt. thought that was pretty clear from what i was saying.

    Sets blaster, from stun, to kill, only joking it's always set to kill :D

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