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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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8 minutes ago, renegade said:

but MAXON needs to know we need better meshes in every area. I thought they would really revitalize much more of the old code.

But we know! Trust me every single developer, QA, Designer etc. knows what we need, what we lack, I am not sure why people think we don't know that. What people need to realize is that some things in programming are not so easy, actually it's complex beyond everything you might think. Great things require more time in development. Part of new core is start to show itself in modeling kernel but many things are hidden under the hood. New HDPI Cinema 4D have been in development for three years...after you see it, there is no coming back to R20, it feels completely different and exciting to work with...and many more minor but crucial life changing improvements. Maxon is not pushing because we value stability of the software and that you cannot and should not rush just to please people. Better do it right then other way around. :)


| MAXON Quality Assurance | 3D Artist | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart/PS4 ID: SIgor420 |:compEnjoy:

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Why provide this big announcement, knowing it is going to stress some users out, without providing information on the cost of future perpetual license upgrades or if they will still be available beyond R21, especially if MAXON is now taking over the sales portion rather than distributors so that they already know the cost? Also, according to the FAQ: Perpetual licensing for Cinema 4D Studio R20 and R21 will still be available at pricing roughly equivalent to the current pricing of Studio R20.

 

While a person may assume that they only mentioned R20 and R21 because they are the most current versions and that future releases will have perpetual license options, it doesn't say that specifically. 

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I understand that MAXON feels that they have changed the game on DCC costs and is trying to provide "value to every user", but to a Studio user it feels more like a loss than a gain.  The annual MSA used to be $650 USD and was raised to $720.  With that you got a perpetual license and Cineversity.  

 

Now for the same amount ($59.99 a month for 12 months or $719.88 per year) you no longer get a perpetual license.  So going the subscription route is the same annual cost as before but you no longer get to use R21 should you unsubscribe.  That is a loss over the old MSA cost model with perpetual licenses.

 

Now, I have no idea what the R20 to R21 upgrade price is for  a perpetual license but given that you lose Cineversity, that choice is also a loss over what we had before.

 

So exactly what do current holders of an R20 Studio MSA really get out of this "game changing" approach to making DCC software affordable?

 

All I feel is loss....no matter how you spin it.  Thank you MAXON.  Until my "Customer portal" opens up with my options, this is how you leave me: a slow burning realization of what 10 years of loyalty means to you.  Hopefully that changes in the near future.

 

Dave

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I'm fine with subscriptions and subscribe to Adobe CC. I could never afford the Studio cost of entry to C4D - had a workplace injury a handful of years back and have struggled with both work and finances ever since. With the new discount and sub options I should be able to jump on board within the year.

 

Unspoken on the threads both here and at CGTalk is the likelihood that with the new subscription/more frequent updates plan, MAXON could have a bunch of big things ready to roll out within the next 3, 4, 6 or 8 months or what have you, and some of the stuff people are wishing for could conceivably land around Christmas or January or something. MAXON did use to crank out the updates back in the day before various new laws stopped them from doing so. So instead of an app that sits frozen in time for each 12 month period you have something that is a bit more lively and you can see where the developer efforts are going more frequently.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Greatszalam said:

People keep comparing this to Adobe in a negative light, but After Effects has been adding some major new features lately as well as addressing huge things that users have been asking for for years. Most of those things (Content Aware Fill for video excepted) wouldn't have been added under the perpetual licensing model because, even though they're extremely useful, they aren't flashy.

Subscriptions incentivise a company to KEEP us happy instead of trying to get us to pay for upgrades. So, instead of coming up with half-baked and useless features that look flashy in the marketing, but are actually useless (like AE's ray-traced renderer), they can add things that are actually useful (like the ability in AE to reference another layer WITH it's masks and effects, or, heck, AE's Master Properties). I'm hopeful that C4D does that as well (but, I hope they keep with their famous stability). 

 

As to MAXON's bluster before the announcement, I assumed it would be something like this. It's not a game-changing feature, but it does have the potential to be an industry-changing move. With the price at $60 a month, it puts HUGE pressure on the other DCCs to respond with their pricing.

 

Subscriptions in CG do not incentivize companies as much as  they make people captive. You stick to a program mainly because your job requires it, and to a much lesser extent because of new exciting features.  Alternatives might exist  but  the cost of switching is often high in terms of learning a new program. What are my alternatives? Maya?Max? Houdini? It would take me years to get as proficient with these programs as I am with C4d. And Blender is not common in pro pipelines. 

And the decision to remove cineversity from perpetual license holders is a real stab in the back.  They clearly want us to move to their sub model so I’m doubtful they will sustain a perpetual license beyond R21 or R22.

 

Again I’m disappointed. All this fuss around what in the end is just a super profitable operation for MAXON...I wish R21’s new features  were a lot stronger and obvious to offset this sad news. 

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The subscription price of Cinema 4D R21 seems reasonable until you discover that Autodesk just released Maya Indie for only CDN$324 per year (CDN$27 per month) if you make less than U$100.000 per year:

 

https://area.autodesk.com/maya-indie/

 

Keep in mind that this is not the crippled MAYA LT version. This is the full blown Maya. 

 

MAXON needs a indie version of Cinema 4D ASAP. Between Blender 2.8 and this new Maya Indie it will be hard to justify Cinema 4D for new users. 

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Well well. Yet another release from MAXON that confirms I was right to jump ship to Modo when R17 came out. A few nice enhancements in R21 but where's the new UV toolset? Looks to me as though the faster object handling / new core that handles UVing still isn't finished. Looks like I can leave my Bodypaint tutorials up for yet another year.

 

My guess is a lot of Cinema 4D hobbyists will jump ship to Blender 2.8. 

 

Cheers everyone :)

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6 minutes ago, 3DKiwi said:

Well well. Yet another release from MAXON that confirms I was right to jump ship to Modo when R17 came out. A few nice enhancements in R21 but where's the new UV toolset? Looks to me as though the faster object handling / new core that handles UVing still isn't finished. Looks like I can leave my Bodypaint tutorials up for yet another year.

I think youll soon realize that was a mistake. I dont see Modo doing anything lately, or any other 3D company that breaks and melts internet with announcments. Once you guys try new C4D you will soon realize that you dont need ground breaking features to makes a good release. There were tons and tons minor improvements and C4D now almost feels like completly new app. I mentioned couple of times, once you are on R21, there is no going back to R20...

Regarding Blender, its great, much better than before, but defintely not perfect. Working with Object Manager is total pain in the butt...etc. I tried every software out there and I am always coming back to C4D.


| MAXON Quality Assurance | 3D Artist | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart/PS4 ID: SIgor420 |:compEnjoy:

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19 minutes ago, hikarubr said:

The subscription price of Cinema 4D R21 seems reasonable until you discover that Autodesk just released Maya Indie for only CDN$324 per year (CDN$27 per month) if you make less than U$100.000 per year:

 

https://area.autodesk.com/maya-indie/

 

Keep in mind that this is not the crippled MAYA LT version. This is the full blown Maya. 

 

MAXON needs a indie version of Cinema 4D ASAP. Between Blender 2.8 and this new Maya Indie it will be hard to justify Cinema 4D for new users. 

Maya Indi is very cheap at £275 plus vat, although a pop up window said it was a limited time offer, that sounds a bit odd if this is meant to be a new licence permanent offer.  Try adding 3 years and that offer vanishes off the cart?  As for Blender, great advancements but still a way off for me compare it to C4D ease of use and navigation.

 

Dan

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And its region locked...plus done more shady tactics, lolz...


| MAXON Quality Assurance | 3D Artist | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart/PS4 ID: SIgor420 |:compEnjoy:

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I'd rather stop with 3D entirely than giving Autodesk a single cent. They're an extremely shady company and a very good example of some corporate overlord that does not care about it's users AT ALL.

 

People keep whining about C4D and the "bad updates" we get every year but I bet most of them have never seen and used the disastrous releases that Maya and especially 3DS Max get ever single year.

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14 hours ago, Burntys said:

My only concern with subscription software is what I have seen from Adobe. Adobe has become more disappointing over the years, with innovation eventually devolving to lackluster updates every year. Subs are ok, but they eventually lead to companies focusing on getting their investors a paycheck, while they gradually reduce the amount spent on RandD and innovation since they don't have to really sell their product to customers annually anymore.

I LOVE C4D and what it has done over the years, but this makes me kind of think the future is going to be users eventually becoming less important than investors. I hope competition with Maya, Blender, and Houdini will at least keep them on their game.

 

The problem with Adobe is not so much the subscription, but the lack of competition.

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