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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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a positive thing for people doing animation: once you animated in r21 it's hard to go back. 

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Existing Studio owners just lost about $2K today as your option to sell your license has now disappeared.

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30 minutes ago, Igor said:

Not sure what are you talking about but this is totally different system and impossible to do with the old one. New Bevel for caps is an amazing tool that can also be animated...you see what our guys did with it soon enough. Ill ask for the video so I can show you tool in action! :)

 

Please do! I need some cheering up! I hate to be a downer - I love C4D actually - maybe I was expecting too much. We own C4D, pay for the MSA's, we've invested thousands in plugins, etc. So we will continue to use C4D, but MAXON needs to know we need better meshes in every area. I thought they would really revitalize much more of the old code. Hell if they just updated the lens flares post effect I wouldn't be so disappointed. 3D text is not exciting, it can be done in very cheap software or with a plugin in AE, we never even use it unless we want to make something that looks retro.

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There are many things in R21 that may on paper not seem to exciting, but they are significant in use, and once your get to use them you will wonder how you worked without them.  Better  Mixamo compatibility  was asked for by many, thats a heck of alot of work put into that alone.  New weighting will offer a better initial weighting method for many cases Im sure.  Copy & Paste of polygon selections to a new mesh was something that I missed when coming from Modo, Its now here.  Visually it looks significantly more polished in the UI, more slick and professional, this may not seem important but its something you look at all day long.  There is alot to take in, and Im sure there are things in there for everyone that will speed up their workflow in one way or another.

 

As for the new licence options, some info like how much a perpetual upgrade will cost is not known yet, and what is to happen with Cinevercity pricing?  The thing is Perpetual Licences are still there and because this is still the case I would not have thought MAXON would make upgrades any more expensive than they are now given this option has been kept.  I think the new features should be at least tried, and its worth at least giving it a bit more time to see the updated site for more info when its up about some info that is unknown at this time.  Im not a fan of Subscription but that dont mean others wont benefit from it.  Rent to own is for me the best of all solutions.  Getting your hands on Redshift within a subscription for some may be the way to get into GPU rendering without that initial outlay on a perpetual licence, this can then be put towards a new GPU.  Redshift is crazy fast, and MAXON made a great investment there.

 

 

 

Dan

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8 minutes ago, renegade said:

but MAXON needs to know we need better meshes in every area. I thought they would really revitalize much more of the old code.

But we know! Trust me every single developer, QA, Designer etc. knows what we need, what we lack, I am not sure why people think we don't know that. What people need to realize is that some things in programming are not so easy, actually it's complex beyond everything you might think. Great things require more time in development. Part of new core is start to show itself in modeling kernel but many things are hidden under the hood. New HDPI Cinema 4D have been in development for three years...after you see it, there is no coming back to R20, it feels completely different and exciting to work with...and many more minor but crucial life changing improvements. Maxon is not pushing because we value stability of the software and that you cannot and should not rush just to please people. Better do it right then other way around. :)


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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Why provide this big announcement, knowing it is going to stress some users out, without providing information on the cost of future perpetual license upgrades or if they will still be available beyond R21, especially if MAXON is now taking over the sales portion rather than distributors so that they already know the cost? Also, according to the FAQ: Perpetual licensing for Cinema 4D Studio R20 and R21 will still be available at pricing roughly equivalent to the current pricing of Studio R20.

 

While a person may assume that they only mentioned R20 and R21 because they are the most current versions and that future releases will have perpetual license options, it doesn't say that specifically. 

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I understand that MAXON feels that they have changed the game on DCC costs and is trying to provide "value to every user", but to a Studio user it feels more like a loss than a gain.  The annual MSA used to be $650 USD and was raised to $720.  With that you got a perpetual license and Cineversity.  

 

Now for the same amount ($59.99 a month for 12 months or $719.88 per year) you no longer get a perpetual license.  So going the subscription route is the same annual cost as before but you no longer get to use R21 should you unsubscribe.  That is a loss over the old MSA cost model with perpetual licenses.

 

Now, I have no idea what the R20 to R21 upgrade price is for  a perpetual license but given that you lose Cineversity, that choice is also a loss over what we had before.

 

So exactly what do current holders of an R20 Studio MSA really get out of this "game changing" approach to making DCC software affordable?

 

All I feel is loss....no matter how you spin it.  Thank you MAXON.  Until my "Customer portal" opens up with my options, this is how you leave me: a slow burning realization of what 10 years of loyalty means to you.  Hopefully that changes in the near future.

 

Dave

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I'm fine with subscriptions and subscribe to Adobe CC. I could never afford the Studio cost of entry to C4D - had a workplace injury a handful of years back and have struggled with both work and finances ever since. With the new discount and sub options I should be able to jump on board within the year.

 

Unspoken on the threads both here and at CGTalk is the likelihood that with the new subscription/more frequent updates plan, MAXON could have a bunch of big things ready to roll out within the next 3, 4, 6 or 8 months or what have you, and some of the stuff people are wishing for could conceivably land around Christmas or January or something. MAXON did use to crank out the updates back in the day before various new laws stopped them from doing so. So instead of an app that sits frozen in time for each 12 month period you have something that is a bit more lively and you can see where the developer efforts are going more frequently.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Greatszalam said:

People keep comparing this to Adobe in a negative light, but After Effects has been adding some major new features lately as well as addressing huge things that users have been asking for for years. Most of those things (Content Aware Fill for video excepted) wouldn't have been added under the perpetual licensing model because, even though they're extremely useful, they aren't flashy.

Subscriptions incentivise a company to KEEP us happy instead of trying to get us to pay for upgrades. So, instead of coming up with half-baked and useless features that look flashy in the marketing, but are actually useless (like AE's ray-traced renderer), they can add things that are actually useful (like the ability in AE to reference another layer WITH it's masks and effects, or, heck, AE's Master Properties). I'm hopeful that C4D does that as well (but, I hope they keep with their famous stability). 

 

As to MAXON's bluster before the announcement, I assumed it would be something like this. It's not a game-changing feature, but it does have the potential to be an industry-changing move. With the price at $60 a month, it puts HUGE pressure on the other DCCs to respond with their pricing.

 

Subscriptions in CG do not incentivize companies as much as  they make people captive. You stick to a program mainly because your job requires it, and to a much lesser extent because of new exciting features.  Alternatives might exist  but  the cost of switching is often high in terms of learning a new program. What are my alternatives? Maya?Max? Houdini? It would take me years to get as proficient with these programs as I am with C4d. And Blender is not common in pro pipelines. 

And the decision to remove cineversity from perpetual license holders is a real stab in the back.  They clearly want us to move to their sub model so I’m doubtful they will sustain a perpetual license beyond R21 or R22.

 

Again I’m disappointed. All this fuss around what in the end is just a super profitable operation for MAXON...I wish R21’s new features  were a lot stronger and obvious to offset this sad news. 

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The subscription price of Cinema 4D R21 seems reasonable until you discover that Autodesk just released Maya Indie for only CDN$324 per year (CDN$27 per month) if you make less than U$100.000 per year:

 

https://area.autodesk.com/maya-indie/

 

Keep in mind that this is not the crippled MAYA LT version. This is the full blown Maya. 

 

MAXON needs a indie version of Cinema 4D ASAP. Between Blender 2.8 and this new Maya Indie it will be hard to justify Cinema 4D for new users. 

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