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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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2 minutes ago, renegade said:

Just looked at the feature list - seems the subscription model and software programming to handle the licensing is what I paid for in my MSA! Yay!

 

Someone said it feels 'snappier' when asked about improvement - that old joke isn't even funny anymore. I will be curious to see the geometry of two mesh objects when I run a boolean subtract on it. Will it still create a horrible mesh? That is the real test of these 'under the hood' improvements.

 

I've been using this app forever and have held on expecting something amazing, usually there was at least one feature I liked every year - and a subscription service is NOT amazing to me. Maybe it is to management - and I think that's the problem, r21 is exciting for the MBAs and the people in accounting - they probably started dancing! The accountants got the features they wanted! The rest us us got code fixes in bevels! And an inability to own our software.

 

Sorry but the feature list is pathetic. Now I own an MSA until next year and will get r21 in September (and will also get the gift of a boatload of broken plugins for my trouble - some may never work again because the developer won't update them, or is out of business or out of the game - so I will lose some capability for my trouble). I really don't want to have to learn a new app (ie MODO) as I have so much invested in C4D - but those of us who had Studio and were paying for an MSA are getting screwed hard. The car analogy is good, being told there are improvements to my car, like not owning it anymore - and that you need to have a wifi connection to start it.

 

Accounting, management and the 3D dabbler have a win! The dabbler can now make AMAZING 3D text - just spellbinding 3D text. And I can make an intricate picture frame! Plus there are some features that allow you to make amazing spinning field patterns (stuff that no client will ever pay for) just what the masturbatory dabbler has been dreaming of. What a grand day for C4D.

LMFAO!

 

My wish is that someone prints that out, hacks into R20 to have that appear as the splash screen so that every time you start up R20 it serves as a great reminder why  people should NOT upgrade.

 

Dave

 

 

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Someone can deny this for existing users ?

 

Studio on MSA to Subscription: pay slighty more, loose perpetual license.

Studio on MSA to continue perpetual: loose Cineversity, 14 day web check, unclear price for upgrades…

Prime, Broadcast etc, get perpetual Studio R21 w 14 day web check, pay much more for next upgrades.

 

“Perpetual” now come with a caveat, it needs to phone home every 14 days.
So it is perpetual if MAXON has the server working…i remind that Autodesk just stopped serving their "perpetual" software more than 3 years old.

 

Out of this mess the only ones that seem to apparently win seem those that are new to the game that have a rent price significantly better than Max or Maya… excluding those that can have Max and Maya Indie.

 

cross posted from cgsociety.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hrvoje said:

Afaik, the problem with shipping updates to perpetual license is not allowed by law if it contains new features, except bugfixes (maybe I am mistaken), therefore it requires version increase and some sort of payment/fee. For subscription this limitation doesn't exist. For example, that means you could get more than one version update in a year by being a subscriber but not as perpetual license owner due to legal implications. Rest assured that MAXON is looking not to cause damage to it's customers, therefore the choice of words there in that part of faq simply reflects that until the solution which will be satisfactory to all is found

 

Really? explain Windows updates then... some have new features.

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Admin

MS is US company, MAXON isn't and is subject to German and EU laws

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50 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:


So why the delay in getting this important information out?  Honestly, this is the worst handled roll-out of any release ever and add to that the much longer message on how MAXON is making C4D for "the world" but (by your own admission) we just haven't worked out how to handle existing customers yet.  

 

Honestly, do you find that approach acceptable?

 

Was MAXON waiting to hear how their existing customer base would react to the news before they decide on the pricing of upgrades to perpetual licenses?  If so, then I hope the message is loud and clear that we are not happy.

 

This is how I am processing this:  Given that R21 is pretty much a "meh" release, then simply let it go.  Do not upgrade...do not subscribe.  This means NO INCOME TO MAXON.  There is no compelling reason why I would need to move into R21 given that you are doing nothing to compel me to do so as a Studio owner.  The costs are the same but I either lose Cineversity or I lose a perpetual license.  The new features certainly are not a huge attraction.  So why do anything?  In the absence of any other information from MAXON, then doing nothing is in my best interests.  Here is why:

 

If there is something I need in R21 or a future release for a short project, then subscribe for 1 or 2 months only.   Again, loss of revenue to MAXON.  Wait a few years (and I mean many years) and set aside the money I would have used for an MSA and then make a decision on whether or not I buy a perpetual license of a future version at your reduced price.  Of course, if all future releases follow the Adobe model and are complete rubbish, then I have lost nothing....but MAXON has lost revenue. 

 

If the price of a perpetual license increases or you no longer offer them, then I am forced into the subscription plan --- but I wold have ended up there anyway had I continued to be a loyal supporter in all those years.    Again, no loss to me (in fact, I save a ton of money) but a loss of revenue to MAXON

 

What really makes this the most bone-headed, poorly thought out release ever is that MAXON has no information on how to handle existing customers.  All you tell us is to use the perpetual license...but based on the arguments above, it is advantageous for us NOT to jump into that model.  No matter what version you have now, costs go up or your loose service (ability to own your software or Cineversity).

 

So doing nothing is the best choice.   Is this really 3D for the whole world?  Is this really what you want?

 

Bring back the MSA with Cineversity for the perpetual license holder.  It's bad enough you are going to make me re-login every two weeks!

 

Dave

 

I agree with much of what you said. I've been looking into alternative solutions and check the renewal price for Cineversity. It's $95 for yearly renewal, which means it's better to pay that and stay in R20 for me. As you stated, if I want to use a future release, I'll pay for a month or two, but I don't really see that happening .

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Pinin said:

Someone can deny this for existing users ?

 

Studio on MSA to Subscription: pay slighty more, loose perpetual license.

Studio on MSA to continue perpetual: loose Cineversity, 14 day web check, unclear price for upgrades…

Prime, Broadcast etc, get perpetual Studio R21 w 14 day web check, pay much more for next upgrades.

 

“Perpetual” now come with a caveat, it needs to phone home every 14 days.
So it is perpetual if MAXON has the server working…i remind that Autodesk just stopped serving their "perpetual" software more than 3 years old.

 

Out of this mess the only ones that seem to apparently win seem those that are new to the game that have a rent price significantly better than Max or Maya… excluding those that can have Max and Maya Indie.

 

cross posted from cgsociety.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That seems all true I'm afraid. Currently in the situation where I've just upgraded from Visualize to Studio with an MSA in March and just had an email confirming all this from the software supplier.. 

Seems my supplier is even thicker because they say you won't even have an option to upgrade a perpetual license in future unless you get subscription. Might be confusing for them as well or they are after my money ... 

 

Think there will be upgrades possible just like before only we need to wait for all the information to come through..

Upgrade might be cheaper because the overall price of a perpetual has dropped and you won't have to pay for cineversity... .. you never know, haha.. 

 

BTW the Indie Max and Maya is a trial and only available in some continents plus the next year you'd pay the full price (that's €1680 in Netherlands), but it's not even available in Europe.

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21 minutes ago, Hrvoje said:

MS is US company, MAXON isn't and is subject to German and EU laws

That is true, but when selling in the US MAXON has to obey US laws. On the other hand MS is so much bigger and differently set up that maybe the can and do afford to have an own department handling this stuff. Given the tax avoidance structures many huge technology ompanies have, they might be able to skirt around this anyway. For a much smaller company like MAXON this is a quite different thing.

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Must say that I am having troubles finding features in R21. I find that very disturbing, not the license talk at all. I could live with subscription, but not for empty release

hats of to @Hrvoje and @Igor, you are really good guys and trying your best to defend  MAXON, but something is seriously wrong. R 21 is empty. nothing. zero. It is a bug fix release from my POV. I am truly disappointed and I think all this new core talk is just bu***it talk. I do struggle with Houdini but this benefit of the doubt that MAXON can deliver has reached a point where I simply lost faith. Will check Blender also since some argued that it matured. If there was Cafe for Houdini I would leave and never look back. Will stay on R20, I guess that is last upgrade for me

 

 

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MAXON really needs to go back to the drawing board. The whole "3D for the Whole World" looks like a farce considering that:

 

1) Studio users will have to pay more than they paid for the MSA

2) Prime and Bodypaint users will have to pay THREE TIMES more than they were paying for their MSA.

3) Disingenuous pricing: the $59 per month sub is not really that, but a $720 annual fee.

4) The annual fee is almost THREE TIMES more expensive than Maya and Max Indie ($250)

5) People don't like Autodesk but now that MAXON is acting like them, Autodesk becomes an option. 

6) Cinema 4D R21 is very weak in features, so I don't see why people would move from R20. 

7) The above fact makes me think that MAXON will soon kill the perpetual license as they realize the old users are not migrating (Autodesk did that). 

8) Finally, the perpetual license is not really perpetual anymore, with a silly 14-day internet activation. 

 

How to fix this? My suggestions:

 

1) CInema4D Indie version for $20 per month (like Octane). Really monthly, not upfront.

2) Keep the perpetual license and the MSA for existing users, without silly 14-day activation. But they only get the upgrades and new features annually. 

3) Subscription-to-perpetual option for new users. Something like: After 3 years of subscription, if you stop, you get the current perpetual license. 

 

 

Otherwise I think we will see BOTH the existing users AND the new users migrating to Maya and Blender.

I teach 3D Animation at the University level. At this price point, with Maya and Max Indie a reality, it's really hard to recommend Cinema 4D for my students.

 

Keep in mind that I LOVE Cinema 4D, but this Adobe-fication of MAXON is really a mistake. 

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14 minutes ago, Urbandisplay said:

BTW the Indie Max and Maya is a trial and only available in some continents plus the next year you'd pay the full price (that's €1680 in Netherlands), but it's not even available in Europe.

 

That's not true. It is indeed a trial before the rolling out for other regions, but you won't have to pay the full price after one year.

Autodesk explained that.

You only have to turn-off auto-renewal and them apply for a new indie license each year.

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