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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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2 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

Seems that there are mixed opinions about the upcoming change. I don't know much about the intricate details regarding how MSA customers or perpetual license owners will benefit from this change, however, I would advise that we all wait for proper detailed information before starting bashing :)

Now, there are couple of things to be aware of:

 

1. Now you are able to buy C4D easily from anywhere. That was not the case before and is something that didn't affect people in the West much, but it sure did elsewhere. I recall that buying through my local distributor was a nightmare, with much larger price and long waiting period. That is gone now

 

2. Subscription will obviously provide the opportunity for much more people that are interested in C4D to actually use it on shorter term basis if needed.

 

3. The cost of C4D is much lower now, isn't it?

 

4. Bundling all editions into one version is huge benefit. This coupled with online shop, online help, online delivery simply leads to more development time for features

 

5. Perpetual license is still here and you still have the option to own it?

 

6. Redshift bundle is really good offer

 

7. I am bit tired of it, and answered it in topics and many private messages - Adobe is not buying C4D

 

1. Never had that trouble you speak off with design Express. 

2. That's a really silly way of trying to find ways to white-knight this move by MAXON.

3. No it isn't. It's gotten more expensive. You need to read past the PR.

4. Don't care much as I've always been a Studio user since V8, but yes, all those different versions never made sense to me. How many photoshop versions are there anyway?

5. At the cost of 3567 Euro with, as it seems, no updates (legal gets in the way) no Cineversity and it will disappear most likely in 2 years anyway (makes most sense) leaving subscriptions only behind.

6. Nope it isn't, not with the inflated costs, the loss of owning your copy, the lack of anything worthwhile in this update (no-one needs this update) and a 2 weekly server check from big brother MAXON.

7. It's not so strange: ex Adobe guy at the wheel and we get Adobe-like™ subscriptions on our roof. Up next, you're told you are not allowed to use this or that version anymore. I can see why people say/write this. Doubt they really believe it but yeah MAXON joined the big bad boys club. Adobe, Autodesk, MAXON. Never thought I see those 3 in one line.

 

Ugh I'm going to wash my hands...

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5 minutes ago, lieber said:

Must say that I am having troubles finding features in R21. I find that very disturbing, not the license talk at all. I could live with subscription, but not for empty release

hats of to @Hrvoje and @Igor, you are really good guys and trying your best to defend  MAXON, but something is seriously wrong. R 21 is empty. nothing. zero. It is a bug fix release from my POV. I am truly disappointed and I think all this new core talk is just bu***it talk. I do struggle with Houdini but this benefit of the doubt that MAXON can deliver has reached a point where I simply lost faith. Will check Blender also since some argued that it matured. If there was Cafe for Houdini I would leave and never look back. Will stay on R20, I guess that is last upgrade for me

 

 

i'd rather pay for proper bug fixes and workflow enhancements that speed up my daily work over fancy features i use maybe once a year. copy and paste polys alone saves tons of time, timeline is much faster, autoweights are great. and those are things i'm in daily contact with. of the r20 features i used fields, but i've not once had proper use for volumes up to now tbh. maybe it's just me, but i don't mind NOT having fancy features and instead being able to work much faster.

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2 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

Seems that there are mixed opinions about the upcoming change. I don't know much about the intricate details regarding how MSA customers or perpetual license owners will benefit from this change, however, I would advise that we all wait for proper detailed information before starting bashing :)

Now, there are couple of things to be aware of:

 

1. Now you are able to buy C4D easily from anywhere. That was not the case before and is something that didn't affect people in the West much, but it sure did elsewhere. I recall that buying through my local distributor was a nightmare, with much larger price and long waiting period. That is gone now

 

2. Subscription will obviously provide the opportunity for much more people that are interested in C4D to actually use it on shorter term basis if needed.

 

3. The cost of C4D is much lower now, isn't it?

 

4. Bundling all editions into one version is huge benefit. This coupled with online shop, online help, online delivery simply leads to more development time for features

 

5. Perpetual license is still here and you still have the option to own it?

 

6. Redshift bundle is really good offer

 

7. I am bit tired of it, and answered it in topics and many private messages - Adobe is not buying C4D

Didn’t you read the thread? :ohmy:

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I am in a slightly better place after reading the FAQ section on MAXON's site about what happens to existing MSA customers and I recommend everyone read it if they haven't. Having just purchased Studio (for myself) the first time in May I was initially really upset with the subscription model. I personally don't care about having a perpetual license (it's nice, don't get me wrong) I was more concerned that my initial investment was for nothing. Assuming MAXON doesn't drop the ball with discounts for existing MSA customers I will be moderately satisfied.

 

With all that said...I am a bit disappointed in the feature list and was hoping for more. I was REALLY hoping Redshift would be included in the MSA. Considering it sounds like I will be getting R21 at a steep discount/free it makes it a bit easier to swallow. It sounds like a lot of the core has been updated, and hopefully more significant changes can happen now.

 

One last thing. This subscription model does make Cinema 4d Studio cheaper which I am all for, but I suspect another reason for the change is to make it at least somewhat harder to pirate.

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1 hour ago, Pinin said:

Someone can deny this for existing users ?

 

Studio on MSA to Subscription: pay slighty more, loose perpetual license.

Studio on MSA to continue perpetual: loose Cineversity, 14 day web check, unclear price for upgrades…

Prime, Broadcast etc, get perpetual Studio R21 w 14 day web check, pay much more for next upgrades.

 

“Perpetual” now come with a caveat, it needs to phone home every 14 days.
So it is perpetual if MAXON has the server working…i remind that Autodesk just stopped serving their "perpetual" software more than 3 years old.

 

Out of this mess the only ones that seem to apparently win seem those that are new to the game that have a rent price significantly better than Max or Maya… excluding those that can have Max and Maya Indie.

 

cross posted from cgsociety.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MAXON really should change it’s R21 catch phrase from “3D for the whole world” to “3D for new customers only”

 

Existing customers are to be left hanging to find out what years of customer loyalty really means to MAXON until we can beat the greedy exec’s and accountants into submission - stay tuned.

 

Dave

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2 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

 

I recall people saying that Adobe is buying MAXON from 2008 onwards "really soon" or "next year" :)

 

Simply not happening. Even from purely business perspective it would be to costly for Adobe and they would certainly opt to do their own development

Adobe never developed any App by itself. The complete Bunch of Apps they call "Creative" Cloud is bought. And Adobe never made great efforts to make them familar (Path-Handles / Layers-Behavior / ... Even since they got their sheeps in the cloud, they don´t do anything that way).  So from where you are that sure, that Adobe will not buy MAXON? They bought Fotolia, Macromedia, Photoshop, InDesign and all the others. They have endless money and they have a lack in 3D...

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4 minutes ago, Raischub said:

Adobe never developed any App by itself. The complete Bunch of Apps they call "Creative" Cloud is bought. And Adobe never made great efforts to make them familar (Path-Handles / Layers-Behavior / ... Even since they got their sheeps in the cloud, they don´t do anything that way).  So from where you are that sure, that Adobe will not buy MAXON? They bought Fotolia, Macromedia, Photoshop, InDesign and all the others. They have endless money and they have a lack in 3D...

Then why it is still MAXON owned? How come after years of same disinformation Adobe didn't buy C4D? It is either not for sale or Adobe is not interested...

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6 minutes ago, Hrvoje said:

Then why it is still MAXON owned? How come after years of same disinformation Adobe didn't buy C4D? It is either not for sale or Adobe is not interested...

And MAXON is owned by Nemetschek. There doesn't seem to be any reason why they would sell it.

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14 minutes ago, Raischub said:

Adobe [...] bought Fotolia, Macromedia, Photoshop, InDesign and all the others. They have endless money and they have a lack in 3D...

 

 InDesign was developed in-house, from scratch. Some people think it was a continued development based on Pagemaker, but that is not the case.

 

And others were developed by Adobe: Brackets, Muse, Edge Animate, mobile versions, and so on.

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3 hours ago, Hrvoje said:

Seems that there are mixed opinions about the upcoming change. I don't know much about the intricate details regarding how MSA customers or perpetual license owners will benefit from this change, however, I would advise that we all wait for proper detailed information before starting bashing :)

Now, there are couple of things to be aware of:

 

1. Now you are able to buy C4D easily from anywhere. That was not the case before and is something that didn't affect people in the West much, but it sure did elsewhere. I recall that buying through my local distributor was a nightmare, with much larger price and long waiting period. That is gone now

That is true, I could buy it from Sweden for example as I did Redshift and I get lower price to pay in the start since I get it without tax. They pay tax for that purchase.

 

Quote

 

2. Subscription will obviously provide the opportunity for much more people that are interested in C4D to actually use it on shorter term basis if needed.

 

3. The cost of C4D is much lower now, isn't it?

I'm not sure that is true for long-term customers, but lets wait and see what MAXON have in mind for us.

I don't really mind not owning perpetual license as long as my costs using software over the year are reasonable. Some of us do not earn over 100k per year so "Indie" option would be something to conciser and would be welcomed much more than this vague presented scheme.

 

Quote

 

4. Bundling all editions into one version is huge benefit. This coupled with online shop, online help, online delivery simply leads to more development time for features

That is true.

 

Quote

 

5. Perpetual license is still here and you still have the option to own it?

But not as much benefits as when we payed for MSA (no Cineversity for example)

 

Quote

 

6. Redshift bundle is really good offer

That I doubt also for us with RS license, as long as RS maintenance extension stay at 214€, but with following trend I suspect that will change also.

For 214€ I get full RS package; standalone and all plugins if I ever decide to use it with another DCC. RS in the bundle is only limited to C4D and it cost more annually.

 

Quote

 

7. I am bit tired of it, and answered it in topics and many private messages - Adobe is not buying C4D

I think that Adobe buying C4D is not the problem in this moment. Problem is that we starting to see similar pattern in pricing policy.

I think this was huge mistake to announce it like this without considering customers supporting MAXON for years.

It may sound good for new customers but we don't know where we stand now so it is very very frustrating in this moment, I hope I'm wrong and there will be some benefits for old customers but in this moment as I can see that lot of old C4D users are not sure what will be transition period/costs for us.

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