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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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I also don’t care about owning it. I’ll be happy to rent it. Adobe Creative Cloud is great in that (a.) I’ve had a much easier time affording Premiere and After Effects, (b.) when new features appeared I had them immediately and could just surf over to Lynda to see what was up, (c.) through the occasional instances where I was flat broke and/or dealing with health issues and/or raising my young son, I could let the Adobe sub lapse. Adobe would send a couple of reminders and then an email saying it had lapsed but they hoped to see me back. Then months later I’d often get an email from them offering to let me resubsctibe at a 30% off discount or something.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if MAXON, way down the track, does similar sort of things. Someone stops subscribing, maybe a discounted offer will bring them back in for a while. Both sides win as the user gets a discount and MAXON (for example) gets some more cash for development purposes.

 

The My MAXON account screen and login method looks great. I can chuck it on my iMac and laptop and use the button detailed in Chris Schmidt’s runthrough to set things accordingly. Since I’ve never had a particular grudge against subscriptions I’ve been happy with the Adobe version of this. With all the negative grief being typed over the past 48 hours I want to say it looks like MAXON has done a really nice and user friendly job with it. I don’t anticipate any problems at all. In the future every time I see the My MAXON login page I’ll visualise a big sign appearing nearby it reading YOU DIDN’T NEED TO BUY STUDIO TO GET HERE. LIFE DOES GET BETTER! Digistor, the Australian distributor, still has R20 on sale for the standard local price of $5610, an amount I last saw in my bank account back when I was given a redundancy package from my workplace following the three years of folder filing and shelf stacking they gave me to do after my workplace injury led to five separate operations. When Dave McGavran and others from MAXON said that the licensing changes would let more people get on board, and possibly change their lives, they weren’t lying. I also didn’t detect marketing BS in McGavran’s sincere and passionate speech. Ditto Paul Babb’s “I approve this message” right before it. 

 

Some posters at CGTalk - one respected longtime user in particular - are busy posting links to get-started Blender tutorials and acting as if the thread there was one big funeral. I guess opinions will have to differ. I don’t want to belittle the honest reactions from longterm helpful forum members like those but to be honest I think it’s better that users like me and others who struggled to jump the first hurdle - and there must be a few - come in the door, hopefully to stay.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Adrien said:

I don't even feel like watching this year...Some of the magic is gone I guess...I always took pride in choosing C4D over maya/max 10 years ago. The program was different, the company as well. The users were kind of like cool outcasts. 

There was also a sense of genuineness in MAXON but the new CEO's latest presentation was so full of marketing BS that I came to realize this era is now over. 

The program is still damn cool but the love factor is gone. 

 

In the past this was always an exciting week. Hear about C4D's new features, lots of discussion on the forums (good and bad), and watching the presentations of the show. This time around, I have not watched a single presentation and have absolutely no interest in doing  so.

There are many companies that offer software subscriptions in a much more user-friendly way. The Adobe way just feels immoral. 

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what feels especially immoral is that they are not offering a monthly payment for what I consider a reasonable price.  To get it in at the 59 price you have to pay for a full year up front.  They bill annually and write the monthly price to show how much you save, but it really just an annual sub.  

 

If we could pay per month and sign a year contract I might jump in.  The month by month cost is too much

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Okay....we all hate Adobe.  We all hate subscriptions.  We all hate that MAXON probably spent a good portion of their development dollars on a license activation routine (and they have the audacity to tout this  a  big 'New" feature).

 

Given the options in how this is being managed and how "perpetual" licenses are being managed, you are paying a premium for actually owning something.  Shame on us for wanting to actually own something.  How "old school".

 

Look, renting scares me for the simple reason that I want to be able to afford using C4D in my retirement years (7 years away).  I don't know what the future holds.  One illness or disaster (natural, man made or financial) can significantly change anyone's retirement plans such that they can no longer afford C4D.  Should you fall on hard times as a retiree then under the subscription plan, you are left with NOTHING!  So owning brings comfort, but you can see how MAXON is financially pushing everyone to subscription.  This will only get worse over time (and I am thinking long term here).

 

So here are a few things that MAXON could do with their license management and activation network that they spent so much time developing over the last year that could actually make me LOVE subscriptions (believe it or not):

 

1) Offer a hobbyist license.  If you truly believe in "3D for the whole world" and want to distinguish yourself from the pack, then offer a significantly discounted license for people like me who are just using C4D because we love the program.  Now, to protect yourself you can make it resolution limited at render time (well below what may be required for broadcast or print media but up there with what looks good on consumer high-def monitors).  You can use your licensing routines such that any C4D file saved using a hobbyist  license can ONLY be opened using a hobbyist license.  That way you can't create the file on a hobbyist license then sign up for one month of professional license to do all your rendering.

 

2) Monthly Billing.  Actually bill us each month.  Don't tell us it is a "monthly rate" but then want the money for the entire year all at once under the annual subscription plan.  Should financial catastrophe strike, you may be more likely to swing a monthly payment than coming up with $720 USD all in one shot. Your licensing network could easily shut down your activation should you fail to make a payment (eg. your credit card gets declined).  Give the person 2 months of grace period to get back on the billing program.  Should you not pay for over that grace period,  then your only choice is pay the higher per month rate each month until your original annual subscription period ends.

 

If MAXON does BOTH of these, then I could actually love what you are proposing.  

 

So when MAXON says "3D for the whole world", then embracing these two concepts shows that you are in fact practicing what you preach...or in more current slang "eating your own dog food".

 

If not, then you are Adobe.

 

Dave

 

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5 hours ago, everfresh said:

what puzzles me in general: why is everyone acting as if it was subscription only from now on?

 

Because that's what is gonna happen.

The perpetual license (which is not perpetual anymore, with the every 14-day activation thing) will be gone in one or two years.

That's what happened with both Adobe's and Autodesk's perpetual licenses. 

And we have a former Adobe guy as MAXON CEO. 

Just do the math. 

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38 minutes ago, BoganTW said:

through the occasional instances where I was flat broke and/or dealing with health issues and/or raising my young son, I could let the Adobe sub lapse. Adobe would send a couple of reminders and then an email saying it had lapsed but they hoped to see me back. Then months later I’d often get an email from them offering to let me resubsctibe at a 30% off discount or something.

This won’t work with Maxons model, unless you decide to pay the much higher monthly rental to have this kind of flexibility. The 50$/month is only for yearly, paid upfront. 

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FYI, I just got off the phone to MAXON UK and they are sending me a pro forma to pay (usual price.is it £540+vat) to extend my msa which ends August 31st, this will get me r21  perpetual, I asked about how that licence stands if I choose in the future to go rental and she didn’t make it all that clear but did clarify that perpetual means perpetual. Probably going to pay that just for the character tools enhancement and then stop and learn all the stuff I don’t use rather than drooling over new stuff.

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43 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Okay....we all hate Adobe.  We all hate subscriptions. 

 

I love Adobe. and I like Subscriptions.. so your wrong right off the bat.

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38 minutes ago, stomich said:

 

Almost. You overestimated the subscription price (VAT is actually included in the 59,49 we pay in Germany) and ignored VAT for the MSA price (which is 550 now, not 500.)

So it's actually

 

Perpetual 3.500 + 7 years updates (7*650 = 4.550) = 8050 vs. Subscription 60 * 96 =  5.760

Know at how many years perpetual actually catches up? Fifty.

 

Perpetual:
3500 + 50*650 = 36.000

 

Subscription:

50*720 = 36.000

 

After your 51st year in the industry, you then safe €70 a year. Yay!

Most of us don't pay VAT, but the calculation stays the same.

 

I get it if people are annoyed because they don't own their software anymore, but there's no need to spread misinformation.

Still - I'm with you on the fact that having something that you can sell is better than owning nothing at the end - still, for my day to day work, it just doesn't matter enough to get upset.

Sorry - I realy had the wrong prices and I´m still not quite sure if VAT is included in the 59,49 you refernced. That´s not said on MAXONs Web-Shop.
elsewise my math wouldn´t be taht wrong.

 

But your 50 yrs Bill isn´t true also.

 

Perpetual License actual = 3451 € (actual) + 29 yrs of Updates (which was 595 € inc VAT the last yrs constantly since 2012 =) 17255 € = 20706.

Subscription = At a minimum of 59,49 mth - like I said not clear if VAT is included or not at MAXONs Shop - which is 713,88 yr. After 29 yrs = 20702.

 

But thats very hypotetic because it ignores an very important point: OWNING and transferable Licenses:


Lets say we use the Software for 3 Years

Me - Perpetual: 3451 € for the license + 2 Yrs of Updates (2 * 595 =) 1190,00. Complete: 4641,00

You - Subscription: 3 yrs at 713,88. Complete: 2141,64

Now we stop using the Software and I sell my Perpetual license for 3451 which means:

Me - Perpetual: 4641,00 - 3451,00 = 1190,00 (Payed 33,00 € mth)

You - In Case of Subscription nothing you own or can sell, so 2141,64 (Payed 59,49 € mth)

We are at the same point now. We own nothing and have no access to our work.

 

Thats´ the real compareable Point.
But the costs for perpetaul are nearby the half after 3 (!) years [To be true - it´s not sure that I can sell my license at that price - but possible].

 

With every further year the bill gets better and better for Perpetual.

All under the condition that VAT is included in the Price of 59,49 which is not clear at MAXONs Website and that you subscribe on a yearly base.

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I was angry when adobe went cc as I’d bought premiere and ae cs6 but I now have no problem with it...I get premiere, ae, ps, audition, muse +5 websites (for now), illustrator, in design that I use and as a videographer/filmmaker pays my mortgage. All that software £600 per year.

i think MAXON May be over pricing themselves....I use c4d for titles and motion graphics but would love to do more in my spare time to expand my knowledge...

 

each to our our own though, that’s my view and others have different situations.

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4 minutes ago, Craig Maret said:

FYI, I just got off the phone to MAXON UK and they are sending me a pro forma to pay (usual price.is it £540+vat) to extend my msa which ends August 31st, this will get me r21  perpetual, I asked about how that licence stands if I choose in the future to go rental and she didn’t make it all that clear but did clarify that perpetual means perpetual. Probably going to pay that just for the character tools enhancement and then stop and learn all the stuff I don’t use rather than drooling over new stuff.

 

Okay.  I think what we all need to do  is to wait until AFTER Siggraph to fully understand what the actual plan is for existing license holders.  I think the "brain" trust of this new licensing plan is probably at Siggraph and most likely under siege by users actually at the conference.  If the sentiment of people on CG Talk or on the Cafe is any indication, I would not want to be them having to actually face people.

 

Given the amount of contradictory information going around from all the various MAXON offices, then this whole roll-out is poorly conceived and  executed.  I think they actually thought it would be accepted whole cloth and with loving arms by the C4D community, otherwise they would have thought it through a bit better....which indicates (maybe at its heart) that they might have the best of intentions and are as surprised at our reaction as we are by their proposal.

 

So let's give MAXON some time....at least until after Siggraph.  Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that MAXON will be ultimately still be MAXON when the dust settles and that all the indications of Adobe practices (like canceling perpetual license activation should you sign up for a subscription) is just so much mis-information....no matter how alarming it may be.

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Adrien said:

I don't even feel like watching this year...Some of the magic is gone I guess...I always took pride in choosing C4D over maya/max 10 years ago. The program was different, the company as well. The users were kind of like cool outcasts. 

There was also a sense of genuineness in MAXON but the new CEO's latest presentation was so full of marketing BS that I came to realize this era is now over. 

The program is still damn cool but the love factor is gone. 

 

Well said, this is exactly how I feel!

 

The (periodic) online activation killed it for me. A change in the licensing system was the only thing I was afraid of in R21.

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