Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
cinomadic

Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Adrien said:

The subscription system is targeting people like you. Studio users like me are the real losers . 

Exactly. The only positive thing is after all, we have our license for the last real perpetual Cinema version with user friendly licensing.

MAXON's argument that you don't have to bother again with serial numbers is ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Craig Maret said:

I was angry when adobe went cc as I’d bought premiere and ae cs6 but I now have no problem with it...I get premiere, ae, ps, audition, muse +5 websites (for now), illustrator, in design that I use and as a videographer/filmmaker pays my mortgage. All that software £600 per year.

i think MAXON May be over pricing themselves....I use c4d for titles and motion graphics but would love to do more in my spare time to expand my knowledge...

 

each to our our own though, that’s my view and others have different situations.

If you are able to pay 600 a year - take a credit pay back a few years and OWN.

There´s nothing, absolutely nothing cheaper with Subscription.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raischub said:

If you are able to pay 600 a year - take a credit pay back a few years and OWN.

There´s nothing, absolutely nothing cheaper with Subscription.

Agreed, don’t get me wrong, I am angry too, it’s a comforting thought that you own something(and it cannot be taken away!)....I’m always looking at options to enable me to leave cc. Someone used the great analogy of buying a car then the manufacturer informing you that now you have paid in full they are going to rent it to you, I know it’s a new model but it seems they just stuck pay as you go meter, a go faster stripe on the side and a new air freshener inside it this year!

 

edit- this is meant to be light hearted humour and not really a dig at r21 itself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marander said:

Well said, this is exactly how I feel!

 

The (periodic) online activation killed it for me. A change in the licensing system was the only thing I was afraid of in R21.

Yeah the online activation does bug me too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this was bad management on MAXON's part. The bitter pill of this subscription mess - that screws over anyone who owned Studio and was paying the MSA (we owned an asset) - should have been sweetened with some killer features to, at the very least, distract us.

 

Why do we buy any software? What is it's value? The features - that's it - don't care about lheir logo, or their tagline, or their branding initiative. Price is a factor, but the features are why I pay. If it was price only I'd use Blender - it's free!

 

So  management is interested in the price and revenues, and should be. But what they sort of forgot is that they are selling features. It looks like management had a kool-aid moment (maybe they took mushrooms with the accounting department) and decided price was more important than new features. And look at the change list for R21, look at what tops it. This 'one, weird, wacky world for everyone' initiative is first on the list - that doesn't help me get a job done, in fact, it's annoying. But it shows what managements priorities are. And they aren't about improving the software. And that is even more worrying than anything.

 

EDIT: The top of the list say "Customer Journey' (this is the subscription mess). I don't want to go on a journey! I'm fine where I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Industry changing, for better or for worse?

 

I have never made a post here but as a frequent forum reader a Studio owner and a MSA customer I feel Im also at the crossroads now.

What I really like about the new direction is that MAXON will finally have a global online store. Im from Estonia, and I had to buy my licence from Finland because we do not have a local reseller.

 

Presentation wise all this licencing and new online store were presented as if they were somehow the new features of cinema 4d. The online store thing should have been done years ago - a nobrainer decision. The reseller way of doing things is from the 90's, oddly some companies are still using this method, MAXON also until now. At the end of the day you should make the selling of your products as hassle free and easy as possible.

 

I kind of like the entitlement system switching between computers but it is a double edge sword with a very nasty other edge because of that 14 day phone home system. Because of this the new perpetual licence is not actually a true perpetual when the company just can shut down the server and there is nothing you can do about that. This is actually stated in the FAQ that releases 3 years old may be retired and be no longer available for download. Now this is some Adobe level threat tactics...wow. Ready up some USB-s for R20 installation.

 

As David McGavran said "...we are not going to force things on you...". Well the way I see it they are very clearly moving users to a subscription only model. It will probably take a few years but it's coming. Current MSA users lose access to Cinevercity going with the "perpetual" upgrade and the price is higher than the yearly subscription. This pricing system can not work the other way around where the perpetual upgrade is cheaper. Then you will not have any subscribers. Boiling frogs here.

 

I also like to own the product after I buy it. The subscription model on computer software makes no sense to me as a studio owner/customer. There are some previous posts comparing C4D to a car but with physical products the subscription system makes much more sense to me. With a car there is always numerous maintenance work involved like insurance, technical check, tire changes, fire extinguisher maintenance etc. All that activity I would gladly trade in for a subscription so that everything works and is in order when I need to drive. With software there is no such maintenance involved(excluding the bug fixes), meaning a stable and working software will not break down over time or need any annual checkups to see if it still works (granted this might happen with a OS update but still, likelyhood is low). It just sits on your hard drive not asking anything, a tool on the shelf that was bought and paid for. Use it however and whenever you like.

 

Feature wise the new field forces demonstrated in Chris Schmidt video are very powerful with big potential. But this direction for me seems kind of confusing. This enables C4D to do similar work to x-particles(still as far as I can tell x-particles has much more to offer). So it is kind of bringing x-particle functionality into cinema natively.The weird part being that people who would want that kind of functionality already have purchased x-particles and for people who are not in that field of 3D work will not care much.

A side note: the Image denoiser and Mixamo rigs are very good additions.

 

In the SIGGRAPH presentation there was also mentioned the world tour in 26 countries to introduce C4D to new users. So the focus now is to acquire new users, and users who are in the Autodesk camp(Much cheaper subscriptions compared to Autodesk products). And as I understand Autodesk already made a counter move with it's indie licencing test project.

 

In conclusion, from my vantage point, this industry changing news is for the worse. The taken direction is very sad because I love the software. MAXON is just stomping on the existing users who made MAXON what it is today. My suggestion for MAXON is to take note what Serif-s Affinity products are doing. I use both and planning on buying the InDesign substitute also. I actually had big plans to build my new system primarily for C4D and Turbulence FD 2 when it comes out but turns out my plans need a rewrite.

 

For all 3D DCC companies out there, Blender 2.8 seems to be a huge improvement in the UI department. So while using R20 Im looking in blenders general direction. I already looked through the official introductory videos and it looks very promising. I would guess that right now blender is sitting on a big red button that will burn other 3D DCC companies to the ground. The tech is there, all they need now is an even bigger push for UX. 

Ragnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, speaking for all those wage slaves who have never owned a copy of Cinema, I think this is a great move. C4D is paid for out of the operating budget of the studio I work in, and the different packages and the MSA have been a total ballache to deal with. Management everywhere have this issue with the difference between capex cost and opex costs - while they will think nothing of paying for something monthly, they will baulk at the idea of spending lump sums of any magnitude.

 

I was looking at sharing one R21 licence with two people, and two R19 licences floating about. Now we can put a nice easy case forward for a monthly cost. And I should be able to easily move workstations, home and the studio. When Adobe moved to subscription it was the same thing, instead of fighting for a colossal upgrade cost, now we are all on the same version, all of the time. Remember having to skip an entire generation of creative suite because you couldnt pay for it? I do, and I'm thrilled I dont have to any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Freemorpheme said:

 Remember having to skip an entire generation of creative suite because you couldnt pay for it? I do, and I'm thrilled I dont have to any more.

???
You have the money for subscription, but  you don´t have for Updates? Sounds funny as Updates were always cheaper than subscriptions are. 
You will pay more for the (annual - one time ammount) costs of subscription than for the MSA before.
Or you more than double the price with a "real" monthly subscription.

I´m looking for the logic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since my MSA is due at the end of August, I'm just going to forget about renewing and make do with learning X-particles in the meantime. It will probably take a while before the plugin breakdown is fixed for everything, so you might find yourself going back to R20 anyway for several months. Then next year or whenever i absolutely need to, I'll jump on the subscription plan. BAM, I saved $700 AND I have a perpetual copy of R20. Ignore all their "deals," and there finally wont be a penalty for skipping a version (that feels like a mild upgrade anyway). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

regarding the adobe sub:  adobe creative suite updates were 1500€ for an update for the master collection. it's 600€ per year now for what was in in the master collection plus a gazillion apps i don't use, but could if i wanted to. i always have the most recent version, no compatibility issues with colleagues (especially after effects was always a pain in the butt). my numbers could be a little off, since it's been a while since i payed for an update for the master collection, but it's definitely cheaper now. in case of adobe, if you have been a master collection customer, the subscription model was fantastic. and the deal is really good. i use around 7 of their apps on an almost daily basis, for 50€ per month that's 7€ per app a month. you really can't beat that.

 

as for c4d personally it doesn't make that much of a difference to me. i use it every day, i make money by using it, costs now 50€ more per year and has the benefit of getting in between updates. IMO they should have made it a little cheaper though. would have toned down the outrage. i get that people are a little upset, but i still have hope that upgrade prices for perpetual will be fair, hasn't been announced yet.

 

and again, regarding the features: r21 affects my daily work way more than r20, and i'm not the only one. people were so happy about r20, and yet i haven't seen much people using  fancy fields setups and crazy volume builder stuff. don't get me wrong, fields and volumes are awesome, but significant speed and workflow improvements are much more essential for the average 3D artist doing daily work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/31/2019 at 11:09 AM, everfresh said:

pretty sure it won't be long until you decide to give r21 a spin...

 

 

Pretty sure you are wrong about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, connartist said:

Since my MSA is due at the end of August, I'm just going to forget about renewing and make do with learning X-particles in the meantime. It will probably take a while before the plugin breakdown is fixed for everything, so you might find yourself going back to R20 anyway for several months. Then next year or whenever i absolutely need to, I'll jump on the subscription plan. BAM, I saved $700 AND I have a perpetual copy of R20. Ignore all their "deals," and there finally wont be a penalty for skipping a version (that feels like a mild upgrade anyway). 

 

Yeah. There's just no need to rush. I'll sit c4d out for a year or two and re-assess. Meanwhile I'll invest my time, energy and focus on other apps. Blender is growing much faster than the other apps (except Perhaps Houdini) and they finally seems to be getting serious funding. 2.8 seems like a foundation that is modern and nimble. Already robust in ways that exceed c4d in several categories. I like the idea of growing with it. Might not have everything I need now, but I can open up c4d r20 when needed.

 

It's on to a new adventure!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Latest Topics

Latest Comments

×
×
  • Create New...