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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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@RBarrett, thanks for your answers, but there’s one question you haven‘t answered yet that everybody wants to know: 

how much will perpetual upgrade cost be after the msa conversion offer... so let’s say perpetual upgrade from r22 to r23? will it be something around the lines of current msa price or significantly higher? i think that’s what most people are worried about right now. also a clear statement if perpetual is here to stay or if there’s any plans to move to sub completely in a couple of years would help.  

 

edit: never mind, found your answers on cgtalk on those questions. i guess it's somewhat understandable that you can't make those long term commitments at this point because you don't know yet how current changes will pan out and how the market evolves. kind of unfortunate though, would have calmed a lot of people down. for my part, my faith about the good intentions at MAXON hasn't changed at all, and i welcome the move in general. an additional flexible sub model is a must have nowadays for a software company at that scale.

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1 hour ago, everfresh said:

 

 

edit: never mind, found your answers on cgtalk on those questions. i guess it's somewhat understandable that you can't make those long term commitments at this point because you don't know yet how current changes will pan out and how the market evolves. kind of unfortunate though, would have calmed a lot of people down. for my part, my faith about the good intentions at MAXON hasn't changed at all, and i welcome the move in general. an additional flexible sub model is a must have nowadays for a software company at that scale.

There were subs before if I’m not wrong...The ambiguous communication around the perpetual license and all the incentives to move to subs leaves little doubt about MAXON’s plans. The sole fact that cineversity is no longer offered to license owners is compelling evidence. 

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9 hours ago, RBarrett said:

Unfortunately it's difficult to be 'fair' to both camps. I think there's lots of benefit to all C4D users that we'll only have to worry about a single C4D edition from now on - there's certainly benefit to us from a product management and development perspective, and several third-party developers have told me they're really happy with the decision. But we didn't want to leave users of other editions completely out in the cold.

 

-Rick

 

 

Sorry Rick.  It is rather disingenuous to come onto the Café with the intent of opening up an honest dialogue with Studio owners and not directly answer my question.  My question is that Prime MSA owners get Studio features  for $250 whereas Studio MSA owners pay $725 for THE SAME PRODUCT.

 

Glad to know the product managers and developers are having a good time (you realize though that your "benefits" of C4D owners ONLY having to worry about one version is really just so much political spin --- or rather "FAKE NEWS").  Please honestly address this concern.  I asked an honest question and would like to be treated accordingly.  To avoid these tough questions is not going to do much for toning down the hot rhetoric in this forum.

 

Also, did I miss something regarding the upgrade price from Studio R20 perpetual to R21 perpetual in the USA?  I also asked that question as well and it was completely ignored or missed.   Again, this is NOT about the future pricing but the pricing as of today, right now. 

 

Does anyone know?  If not, why is this such a hotly guarded secret?    And please do not throw up the smoke screen of EU laws or we are still working through all the choices for all users (I mean really, there are only 5 MSA licenses moving to one Studio perpetual license....how hard can that be).  Again, be direct....be honest. If you don't know, just tell us you are working on it and when you will have an answer.

 

Again...this is the time to be real.  Not a good time for spin and hoping we go away.

 

Dave

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10 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

There's a monthly price and an annual price. As you can imagine it's cheaper in the long run with an annual commitment, but you'll certainly be able to subscribe for a single month. Keep in mind too that C4D offers the Cineware library for 3rd party apps to read and write the file format, and we've got great partners making use of that library. For instance, you can load a C4D in After Effects and render it.

 

Thank you for clearing that up Rick.  there is much disinformation going around. 

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"The basic conversion offer is this - if you have an active MSA for an edition other than Studio, you can lock in 2 years at roughly the same price as your current MSA. If you have an active MSA for C4D Studio, you can lock in the first 2 years at a 20% discount"

 

"My question is that Prime MSA owners get Studio features  for $250 whereas Studio MSA owners pay $725 for THE SAME PRODUCT"

 

Yeah.. something is very wrong here.  So Prime MSA owners lock in two years for only 250..that can't be right can it.... but studio owners who have paid and supported MAXON get 20% off of 720?  Sorry am I totally missing something.

 

My MSA ends on August 31st.  So If I renew my MSA, then move to subscription, would my price be essentially  720 plus the 20% off, since I get credit for a whole year of MSA.  And if you lock in two years with that rate, I assume my second year will be billed after the first year?

 

I'll contact sales next week, but it would be nice to get some clear answers so I can consider my options.

 

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1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Sorry Rick.  It is rather disingenuous to come onto the Café with the intent of opening up an honest dialogue with Studio owners and not directly answer my question.  My question is that Prime MSA owners get Studio features  for $250 whereas Studio MSA owners pay $725 for THE SAME PRODUCT.

 

Look at it from the other side - in fact the other side has posted here several times - those folks are used to certain annual price and they wouldn't see it as fair to have their price increase all of the sudden. 

 

1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

 

you realize though that your "benefits" of C4D owners ONLY having to worry about one version is really just so much political spin

 

It's really not. You wouldn't believe the amount of time we'd have to spend explaining to users the difference between the editions - in almost every case folks ended up with Studio, but there was plenty of confusion along the way. Lots of folks would buy one edition and then upgrade it within a month because they didn't release it lacked MoGraph or Sketch and Toon.

 

Couple that with the time it took our dev team to insert checks in the C4D code for which edition the user had, the complexity of determining exactly which aspects of new features would work in which editions, trying to balance it all out...

 

Tool and preset developers like Rocket Lasso - they had to worry about restricting their features or restricting the editions that their tools or presets were compatible with.

 

Tutorial creators would usually create stuff in Studio, but often got feedback that folks couldn't follow the tutorial because they used some features exclusive to Studio.

 

We've simplified all of this to streamline the purchase process, internal development and the process of growing out the Cinema 4D ecosystem.

 

1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Also, did I miss something regarding the upgrade price from Studio R20 perpetual to R21 perpetual in the USA?  I also asked that question as well and it was completely ignored or missed.   Again, this is NOT about the future pricing but the pricing as of today, right now. 

 

In US Dollars, the upgrade from Studio R20 Perpetual to Studio R21 Perpetual is $999. I have provided that several times (not sure if it was here - too many forums), but do keep in mind that (a) anyone with an active MSA in September will receive R21 perpetual - so most of you under MSA don't need to worry about the upgrade price, and (b) this price is not necessarily indicative of future upgrade pricing.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, stoecklem said:

My MSA ends on August 31st.  So If I renew my MSA, then move to subscription, would my price be essentially  720 plus the 20% off, since I get credit for a whole year of MSA.  And if you lock in two years with that rate, I assume my second year will be billed after the first year?

 

Best to check with sales - they have sharper pencils and faster calculators. I'm pretty sure if you convert immediately you'd get credit for the first year - you'd pay immediately for the second year and be all set until September 2021.

 

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Thanks for your response and your presence on this thread is much appreciated. I don't have the money to immediately pay for the second year... what happened to billed annually?  That might be a deal breaker for me. 

 

You didn't address my first question?   It really is only 250 a year for Prime MSA owners?

 

edit:  MAXON should really consider re-thinking this. I'm pretty sure they would get massively more customers if we could pay monthly with an annual contract.

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Also I was wondering... I haven't seen confirmation either way.  We still get unlimited Team Render nodes right?  That might also be a deal breaker if not.

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15 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

There's a monthly price and an annual price. As you can imagine it's cheaper in the long run with an annual commitment, but you'll certainly be able to subscribe for a single month. Keep in mind too that C4D offers the Cineware library for 3rd party apps to read and write the file format, and we've got great partners making use of that library. For instance, you can load a C4D in After Effects and render it.

 

 

Yes, but the monthly price is $94.99 not $59.99 like you guys are advertising.

There is no such a thing as monthly price billed annually.

It's just disingenuous to say that the $720 annual price is $59.99 monthly.

 

And it's also false advertising and illegal and some countries where you guys sell Cinema 4D (Brazil comes to mind). 

 

I would suggest MAXON to either stop saying is $59.99 monthly or to actually give this option to the costumers, something like $59.99 monthly in a 12-month contract. 

 

Personally, I think the $720 is a good deal but that doesn't justify the disingenuous advertising. 

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13 hours ago, Adrien said:

Thanks to all the MAXON people who take the time to read and answer our questions. 

I belong to the disillusioned users but also hear the challenges that MAXON is facing. 

 

I don’t know if there is an evil plot and do not care at this point but as stressed on several occasions, we need clarity on the options for existing  studio license  owners:

-upgrade pricing for perpetual licenses 

-inclusion of cineversity or not. 

-perpetual license availability beyond R21

-features va subscription license 

 

This will hopefully calm everybody down. 

 

Thank you all and again, I appreciate you took the time to post here, including David. 

 

 

I'm just going to copy these unanswered questions as they would be the same as mine.

Kinda need specifics here.

The lack of info about perpetuals past R21 as well as the weird (and incredibly skinflint) removal of Cineversity for perpetual - yay, less stuff for a lot more money, well.. sorry, but it makes me think this is just Creative Cloud all over again and we'll be encouraged ever more firmly to subscribe or go home.

Would love to be proved wrong if you could address these questions.

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1 hour ago, RBarrett said:

 

In US Dollars, the upgrade from Studio R20 Perpetual to Studio R21 Perpetual is $999.

 

 

Sorry but this does not seem to be a fair price for perpetual Studio owners. On top of that, take away the Cineversity subscription. Not a way to treat your loyal customer base.

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