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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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This aspect of what Rogwal said makes paying more than Prime customers for the exact same thing even more illogical to me, just sayin':

 

then they de-valued my Studio version considerably. 

 

...so what is the market value of a C4D Studio R20 license post announcement? I'm guessing a whole lot less than pre. Anyone want to buy one for $3500? I assume not.

 

hahaha, I'll cut you a discount ? 2500? Seriously, if anyone is interested for 2k pm me.

 

OR I'll just pay you to trade for the illustrious Prime discount.

 

i mean, c'mon it makes no sense. It's weird they haven't thought this through while packing for siggraph.

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Now, I don't intend to get a subscription, but for those who want to, I wonder why anybody is getting angry about the various discounts. I don't think 20% per year is all that great, but a subscription allows you to enter at any time without financial loss, so why not simply wait?

I have a valid MSA until what, November, so I will get the R21 anyway, at the usual time. I hope I will also get the usual bugfixes that used to follow a release, although that has not been communicated afaik. I will not get any new functionality but that doesn't look like an issue to me as there just was a release (and it will require much time for me to work up even to R21 anyway, with the plugin issues and all; in practical work I'm still on R19).

If MAXON hadn't cancelled the MSA, I would have paid a new version in December, and gotten it next year in September. Now since there is no MSA, I pay nothing. (I do not appreciate losing Cineversity with that, by the way.)

I would get a 20% discount for two years (or an equivalent of 40% for one year, if prices stay the same) if I switch to subscription before that. However, I would need to pay the yearly subscription in advance, and in this case even for two years in advance, if I read the comm right.

But I can simply subscribe later. Like, at the time when the R22 would have come out (just in line with my original expectations). Saving subscription from December to September, that's nine months saved, or 75% of a year. Or maybe start the subscription even later. (It's something I can do only once as I am locked in from the moment I start a subscription, so it is good to milk the strategy for all that it's worth.) I will get the newest version with the subscription no matter how many months I skip. Granted, I will not get the newest features, and I will not have Cineversity, but I will catch up sooner or later, and to be honest, do you need newest features the second they are published? (Bugfixes are actually the only negative consideration here.)

You can get yourself a 100% discount, 200% discount that way. (This was not possible with the old MSA, not even once.) And you can observe what MAXON does in the meantime - how often they will publish new features, which new features, what direction they take, what the future prices for a perpetual will be, whether there even will be a perpetual R22... will the subscription price go up after six months, will they change the file format and lock old users out from the compatibility path... why rant here about possible future developments and hypothetical pricing, when you can give MAXON the benefit of doubt and let them prove their worth for a year or two.

Playing the waiting game seems the most promising strategy here in any case. In the absolutely worst case, you lose your 20% discount because you are unexpectedly forced to subscribe for some reason (customer file formats, or something) one day after the discount option expires, but that's what... at a hypothetical 720$ per year, it's 144$ yearly or at two years, 288$, not so much money to risk, and with a low, low likelihood.

(If I were a Prime user with a valid MSA and not as adverse to subscriptions as I actually am, I would be giddy with pleasure right now.)

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Cool, if that's how you feel then why not buy my licence for two thousand bucks? Sounds like a fantastic deal and it's for sale. Best time ever to grab one from me. I have never sold for this price before. So if that's how you feel, buy me out.

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1 hour ago, connartist said:

Cool, if that's how you feel then why not buy my licence for two thousand bucks? Sounds like a fantastic deal and it's for sale. Best time ever to grab one from me. I have never sold for this price before. So if that's how you feel, buy me out.

 

I was talking about strategies if you (1) have some C4D version already and (2) intend to subscribe in the future. (As I said in the beginning of my post, I do not intent to rent anyway.) So, this does not even apply.

 

Naturally, the resale value of a Studio license is significantly reduced now - someone who intends to grab a permanent R21 now could just buy a Prime or Bodypaint R20 with MSA and would get a R21 Studio for no additional cost; great value if you don't mind the uncertainties of the perpetual future... so, this is not a good time to sell other but the cheapest level of licenses, and it's not going to get better.

 

If you just bought a Studio, Broadcast, or Visualize version a month ago, this is quite a handicap as you could have gotten the same target version (R21 "studio") much cheaper, and are bereft of the intended upgrade path. (You can stay on Perpetual but the next upgrade price will now be (most likely) significantly higher and doesn't include Cineversity. One of the things to look out for in the future.)

 

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@Cairyn in my understanding of things you will get bugfixes, just as usual, but what will be exclusive to subscribers is eventual new features mid-cycle... but no one knows if and how often that will be during the course of a year.

 

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1 hour ago, everfresh said:

@Cairyn in my understanding of things you will get bugfixes, just as usual, but what will be exclusive to subscribers is eventual new features mid-cycle... but no one knows if and how often that will be during the course of a year.

 

 

That would be the very least of issues. I would not want to introduce a new feature release into a running project anyway (unless there is a very good reason). Changing horses in the middle of the race, and all that.

 

Which raises the question whether a workflow like this is possible: Have one installation of, say, R21 active and running for handling a current project, and have another installation of a later version (R21.1, R21.4, R22, R22.8, whatever) active and running for evaluation and tests. (Not using in parallel naturally, but alternatingly, and possibly on different machines even.) And would that be handled differently for subs and perpetuals or not? (The pricing site claims something like "only one version" for the perpetual, but that can be interpreted differently.)

 

And will the installation files for a subscribed version be downloadable, or is it a "live" installer only, or is it even an auto-update like Windows... which would be very important if MAXON indeed does not offer older version for download/installation (or even start?)

 

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22 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

Look at it from the other side - in fact the other side has posted here several times - those folks are used to certain annual price and they wouldn't see it as fair to have their price increase all of the sudden. 

 

Wow....so after 15 years of loyally paying my higher Studio MSA costs, I am supposed to drop my concerns about being treated unfairly because the Prime users are getting a big break.

 

I guess that pretty much sums up MAXON's general disdain for Studio users.  Thank you MAXON.  Glad we know what you really think.

 

The right thing to do is to charge the lower cost that Prime people have to pay to EVERYONE!  That would immediately maintain that loyalty and really make us believers in your "3D for the whole world" direction.  But no.  That is not how you are proceeding.  You are kicking Studio users to the curb.

 

So let me ask the MAXON community (not you Rick) this: 

 

Given that Studio users are being treated unfairly today....what makes you think that subscription users won't be treated unfairly tomorrow?  Can you trust anything that MAXON has to say once they lock you and your work into their subscription model?

  • Can you trust that they will be releasing updates at more regular intervals?
  • Can you trust that Cineversity will still be free?
  • Can you trust that Cineversity plugins will still be free?
  • Can you trust that subscription prices will not rise.  I mean just look at where Studio upgrade prices have gone in the last two years:  $650 for R18, $725 for R20 and now $999 for R21
  • Can you trust anything that comes from a MAXON employee as a counter argument to these concerns?  Actions always speak louder than words and MAXON's pricing actions are speaking pretty loud right now.

Trust is a precious thing and how Studio users are being treated should serve as a warning to everyone about what the new corporate culture really is at MAXON.  I don't even think Adobe started out this bad, this blatant.  

 

Quote

In US Dollars, the upgrade from Studio R20 Perpetual to Studio R21 Perpetual is $999. I have provided that several times (not sure if it was here - too many forums), but do keep in mind that (a) anyone with an active MSA in September will receive R21 perpetual - so most of you under MSA don't need to worry about the upgrade price, and (b) this price is not necessarily indicative of future upgrade pricing.

 

So I thought that $999 was  the R21 upgrade price if you were NOT under an MSA prior to September 1st?  My hope was that for those like me whose MSA expires on August 31st, that the upgrade price to R21 perpetual would be less.  But I guess it would not be less but actually more than the $725 cost I paid last year for an R20 perpetual license.  Therefore, my assumption is that the $999 cost for a perpetual license is fixed from this point forward and my existing MSA does nothing to change that cost.

 

So what is my incentive for doing anything prior August 31st when my current MSA expires? 

 

And don't go into the 20% discount on subscriptions.  Sorry.....I still feel like I am being ripped off there when Prime users get the same thing for less.  We've gone over that...your reasoning is absolutely flawed from where I sit and I don't think you could come up with any reason why Studio users should accept it, so let's leave that off the table.

 

So....convince me (as well as others on the forum) as to why I should take any action prior to August 31st?

 

Have a nice day.

 

Dave

 

Dave

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cairyn said:

 

That would be the very least of issues. I would not want to introduce a new feature release into a running project anyway (unless there is a very good reason). Changing horses in the middle of the race, and all that.

 

Which raises the question whether a workflow like this is possible: Have one installation of, say, R21 active and running for handling a current project, and have another installation of a later version (R21.1, R21.4, R22, R22.8, whatever) active and running for evaluation and tests. (Not using in parallel naturally, but alternatingly, and possibly on different machines even.) And would that be handled differently for subs and perpetuals or not? (The pricing site claims something like "only one version" for the perpetual, but that can be interpreted differently.)

 

And will the installation files for a subscribed version be downloadable, or is it a "live" installer only, or is it even an auto-update like Windows... which would be very important if MAXON indeed does not offer older version for download/installation (or even start?)

 

afaik multiple installations of different versions should still be possible and it was also stated somehwere that you can download at least the most recent 2-3 versions on their site and get active support for it.

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12 hours ago, RBarrett said:

There's been some confusion on this, so let me be clear - we'll extend your Cineversity until the end of your MSA. 

 

-Rick

Rick,

if you're still on the thread, could you answer my/Adrien's questions (think the post's on page 35)?

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40 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

 

So I thought that $999 was  the R21 upgrade price if you were NOT under an MSA prior to September 1st?  My hope was that for those like me whose MSA expires on August 31st, that the upgrade price to R21 perpetual would be less.  But I guess it would not be less but actually more than the $725 cost I paid last year for an R20 perpetual license.  Therefore, my assumption is that the $999 cost for a perpetual license is fixed from this point forward and my existing MSA does nothing to change that cost.

 

So what is my incentive for doing anything prior August 31st when my current MSA expires? 

 

i think you thought correct. i get that statements made by MAXON are a little confusing and not very clear.

what i get from it is this: 999$ is the upgrade price for NON-MSA customers. MSA customers can renew MSA before august 31st and "can lock in for the next 2 years", that means in my logic that you get r21 for the price of current msa, and you will also get r22 for the price of current MSA. after that, nobody knows yet.

 

@RBarrett please correct me if i'm wrong.

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The $999  upgrade cost is as for users with no MSA, thats has not changed, it's been that way for some time that if you don't have a MSA you pay more for a upgrade and it does not come with Cineversity, so that part of it is not different. 

 

As current MSA owners you get what you paid for, R21 + Cinevercity, no change.  As there will no longer be a MSA in the future you can lock in your MSA to cover you to cover R22.  Your not pay any more, and your loose anything.  After R22 as the MSA will run out before R23 MAXON will put in place a new price structure for future perpetual upgrades.

 

This is when we will see what we gain, keep or loose, thats a way off from now.  This gives MAXON time to see how the new changes work.

 

As for the prime and other restricted version users getting a good will upgrade to R21 I think its at least what MAXON could do considering most wont ever need the features of Studio, yet they are forced to have it along with future more expensive upgrade costs what ever they may be to keep their perpetual licence going.  From what I understand, and please correct me if iv got this wrong R21 does not directly affect MSA perpetual subscribers "right now" and the complaints regarding future upgrade costs are based of speculative reasoning that its going to be significantly higher than the MSA we have now?  I cant check, but what was the upgrade costs for thoes studio users who didnt choose to get a MSA, I think its the same then and it is now. 

 

There seems to be some confusion between upgrade costs vs MSA costs, they are two different prices.  Again correct me If I have this one incorrect but isnt there still time for R20 perpetual users to get a MSA right now to cover themself to avoid the normal upgrade prices?

 

Dan

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@Rectro that's exactly how i understood everything, too.

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