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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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14 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

There is a lot of confusion out there about what happens next concerning perpetual licenses (both upgrade costs and activation)....

 

Dave

 

Not much confusion really. They sure have a plan mapped out. 

 

For the short term (once MSA conversions are mopped up) the perpetual license upgrade will be not less than $900 per year. It will be that, more...or perhaps down the road...completely unavailable. Are any of those acceptable? Not for me. Nor is subscribing.

 

I agree that we vote w/our wallet. I plan to give my money to one of MAXON's competitors. 

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2 minutes ago, 3DKiwi said:

Dave, the reaction shouldn't have come as a surprise. There would have been some very robust discussion in the Beta Tester's forum that I was once part of.

 

Do as I do and vote with your wallet.  I cancelled my daily newspaper from 1 August as the price had gone up again. I told them a year ago that next price increase I would be cancelling my subscription that I've had for many years. $3 a day for a newspaper is just too much. But I have just forked out US $399 for another's year's subscription / updates for Modo. I'm happy with the value for money I'm getting.

So as  a past modo user (I still have a license from 401) , I think I can get back into the software for a reasonable cost.  But here are the challenges which I am sure you faced:

 

1) How easy/hard is it to convert C4D files, textures and UV's to modo?  How well is FBX import?

2)  The interface was always daunting.  Did they make the object manager any easier to use?  Any recommended modo tutorials for beginners akin to the little blue airplane one you did for C4D (that one is a classic)?

3) Does modo have particle animation, fluid simulation?  X-Particles is just too addictive to walk away from and it gets so much more powerful with each release.  Anything close in the modo world? 

4) I also love Forester (tree generation and animation).....anything close?  Does modo even have plugins?

 

I have three choices and each will be voted on with my pocket book (but I must look at more than just the software)

 

  1. Stick with MAXON...tough to do when you are this angry....but the worst decisions tend to be the most emotional ones.
  2. Go with Blender.  R2.8 looks to have a better interface and the Blender eco-system of model/tutorial/plugin developers is pretty huge.  In fact, there are some modeling plugins I would love to have in C4D.  Plus Blender has fluids.
  3. Go with modo.  I need to evaluate if the Blender UI in R2.8 represents more of less of a challenge than the modo interface.  In the absence of all other information, if I can learn the modo interface faster than Blender's, then I would probably go with modo.

Fun times ahead.

 

Dave

 

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1 minute ago, 3D-Pangel said:

So as  a past modo user (I still have a license from 401) , I think I can get back into the software for a reasonable cost.  But here are the challenges which I am sure you faced:

 

1) How easy/hard is it to convert C4D files, textures and UV's to modo?  How well is FBX import?

2)  The interface was always daunting.  Did they make the object manager any easier to use?  Any recommended modo tutorials for beginners akin to the little blue airplane one you did for C4D (that one is a classic)?

3) Does modo have particle animation, fluid simulation?  X-Particles is just too addictive to walk away from and it gets so much more powerful with each release.  Anything close in the modo world? 

4) I also love Forester (tree generation and animation).....anything close?  Does modo even have plugins?

 

I have three choices and each will be voted on with my pocket book (but I must look at more than just the software)

 

  1. Stick with MAXON...tough to do when you are this angry....but the worst decisions tend to be the most emotional ones.
  2. Go with Blender.  R2.8 looks to have a better interface and the Blender eco-system of model/tutorial/plugin developers is pretty huge.  In fact, there are some modeling plugins I would love to have in C4D.  Plus Blender has fluids.
  3. Go with modo.  I need to evaluate if the Blender UI in R2.8 represents more of less of a challenge than the modo interface.  In the absence of all other information, if I can learn the modo interface faster than Blender's, then I would probably go with modo.

Fun times ahead.

 

Dave

 

 

1. Exporting from C4D to Modo is easy. I'm currently finishing off exporting some of my Lego parts modelled in C4D to Modo. I export in obj format and UV's are retained. Haven't tried other formats. Usually after importing you need to run a mesh cleanup command to clean up any flipped normals etc.

2. The interface has been overhauled. You can pretty much do most tasks from one layout now but you change menus etc. But as always, it takes time to learn. Not sure what your problem with the Modo Item list is. Easy to use but of course it's not C4D with it's tag system.

 

Knowing your past history with Modo I would suggest trying Blender 2.8. Nothing to lose as it's free and there's a ton of tutorials. Even I'm tinkering with it. I just find the modelling tools a bit lacking and no native expression (Xpresso) node system means complex animation rigs aren't that easy to set up. But you've gotta love the Eevee real time rendering and even the cycles rendering is great.

 

3. Modo has a node based particle system that's a lot easier to use than TP. No fluids.

 

4. No idea.

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I think they should be a bit afraid.

 

First, they aren't Adobe, with a suite of many apps, most with no real competitors. They also don'y and will never have a huge customer base like Adobe. Adobe is huge - 10,000+ employees, how big is MAXON in comparison? I saw there are 111 employees on Linkedin. Someone may know the number, but they are not Adobe. Hell, they aren't even Autodesk.

 

Second, 3D is not so easy to use or learn - I have watched people just give up on it out of frustration - they can make a few things, but nothing really great. It ain't Photoshop or InDesign. They may get a bunch of subscriptions at first, but how long will that last? There will be a falloff as companies realize they don't need many seats at all, and some will just keep a few, swapping them so easily via that portal. And they still have to come up with $720 per seat per year.

 

What MAXON should want is loyalty - and flexibility. So they should make entry easy, but also keep loyalty (which can't be bought). Again, if they think they are Adobe, they really have drunk the MBA, "everything is widget" kool-aid in the executive suite. I hope they wake up from the delusion they sold themselves.

 

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1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

(Igor last posted over 140 messages ago).

And what can I say...what ever we say nothing is going to change this. I can only say that I feel sad becasue I know how much time and effor we put into Cinema 4D each year and how developers are passionate and overall super nice people, Cinema 4D will never change heart and soul, you can bet on that. And while this release doesnt seems that great on surface, it changes CInema 4D for better, thats for sure. I simply love it, I seriously cant go back to R20! Its not always about big features, at least not for me. 

And subscribtions, well, someone will love it someone will hate it, isnt that always a case, what ever you do?!

 


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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I saw a video of the MAXON CEO saying “MAXON needs to be a global company”.

 

You can start to see what that means. You bully your customers, treat them like sh** and put them inline. Train them to be good little sheep. Make them perpetually dependent and bleed them for every dollar possible.

It’s how the big global banks and telecom providers do it.

 

To me they are now MAXOFF...and the enemy now.

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I am sure that whatever we post will be awarded with bashing, however, both Igor and me simply don't make MAXON's business decisions, we are part of development team. In that regard we can tell you that even if superficially R21 looks on thinner side, simply try using timeline now and you will notice it has major performance boost. Nobody even mentioned Fields additions with new subfield and mask workflow. Caps and Bevels are much more than name suggests, again, once demo is there check it out...

 

We leave this thread open for anyone to voice their opinion and we certainly didn't censor any of the posts, but it feels quite bad to be Cafe owner now. We did a major overhaul of Cafe and it is completely overshadowed by this topic. There is a lot to look forward to since development gets much more breathing space and can accelerate to a point where all of us want to be, feature and performance wise

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This week has so much deja vu to it.

 

I think back with Adobe...six years ago The After Effects internal core was old, slow, in some places broken. Lots of dated code. Fixes were promised. Then Adobe abruptly went to to forced-subscriptions. Six years have passed and that core never got re-written. They release little trivial updates here and there. Never a major release or major improvement to the core. All while they print money.

 

Here now...major core re-write promised...delayed...deferred...delayed. And the move to coercive subscriptions.

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3 minutes ago, Icecaveman said:

Here now...major core re-write promised...delayed...deferred...delayed. And the move to coercive subscriptions.

I am not sure what are you talking about, but new core is all over the place. Mostly visible is in modeling kernel and this time around you can see what new core can do as now many tools and command are faster thanks to amazing work of modeling team. So, nothing is delayed we work hard on new code changes! :)


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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Igor, I feel bad for my fellow users and I feel bad for those among the MAXON staff that are good eggs. Your CEO and those pushing this direction....those are not good people. MAXON is now Maxoff.

 

This would be my message to McGavran and the NEMETSCHEK (write-us-a-check) folks:

Shame! Shame! Shame!

<Insert Cersei's walk here>

 

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