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cinomadic

Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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folks, let's keep this topic civilized, it would be really bad if we had to lock it since we want everyone to express their opinion. Rest assured that this topic is being read .

 

Now, if I was still a freelancer, or a new user, I would be happy. Why? Because when I was buying a license I had to fork out full price, plus distributor fee, plus full month of waiting for box to arrive so from my personal perspective, I would embrace subscription since I could start using the software and making money right of the bat for smaller price. Everyone is leaving most valuable asset from calculation and that is time. If I am saving for perpetual license I am simply not earning with software during that saving time. Sure, my perspective is not universal and is not applicable to others but isn't it as valid? Subscription is simply a business model of today. But there are still perpetual and educational licenses

 

Now, comparisons are drawn between Adobe and MAXON. There is simply no connection there. David worked for Adobe at one point. So what? What if he worked for Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, whoever - would that make a difference? :)

 

There are many reasons to look forward to future. First of all, C4D eco system is simply cheaper to enter now, that is a fact. All logistical changes that are made with making single version, online help system, downloadable product, same buying conditions throughout the world etc will simply speed up development and free resources for more frequent release cycle. With that being said, I fully understand the concerns and specifics which people voiced here, however painting all of us that work for MAXON as bad guys is a bit too much...

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13 minutes ago, Hrvoje said:

painting all of us that work for MAXON as bad guys is a bit too much...

 

I said EXACTLY the opposite. I talked about some of the good MAXON employees. No one in this thread (to my knowldge) has said a bad thing about MAXON employees.

 

As for what I said about MAXON leadership...if the shoe fits...

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Amidst all that confusion, there have been NO posts from any MAXON employee. 

 

As you noted several pages ago, we've been busy with Siggraph. Though not dealing with upset customers - quite the contrary. The customers we spoke with at the show (both existing customers and soon-to-be-customers) are very excited about the new options that are going to offer many more folks an opportunity to join the amazing Cinema 4D community. And despite the tone of some posts here, I do still believe this is the best community around any piece of software - so many folks willing to share their techniques and their time - including the 20+ presenters that you saw on C4DLive and many others who staffed demo stations in the MAXON, Redshift, Intel, AMD and Nvidia booths. So many partners have admired both the strength of our community and the excitement over our acquisition of Redshift and our new pricing, and they're eager to play a larger role in the C4D ecosystem. My week was largely spent with them and with customers.

 

Amidst the Siggraph meetings, I've done my best to read through the various forums and other online communities and respond as much as possible (as have other MAXON team members). It hasn't been easy - often trying to parse pages and pages of comments on a phone and pecking out responses on a tiny keyboard. I'm sorry we haven't been able to be more present here and that there's been confusion. 

 

I'm back home now, and I'll do my best to answer questions.

 

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Why not have a subscribe to own option? My biggest problem is not being able to open my own files if I decide to stop with the subscription. Many other companies provide this option or something similar. Why does MAXON have to go the Adobe route. There are much more user friendly ways to achieve subscriptions.

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31 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

I'm back home now, and I'll do my best to answer questions.

 

 

Simple question:

Can MAXON commit long term to accommodate the user who needs a perpetual license and needs to pay less than $800 per year* in upgrades?

 

These are this customer's requirements to even consider moving forward. I'll make it easier and ask, Can MAXON make such a commitment for 3 years.

 

*In today's dollars. Of course inflation is understood.

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12 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

Amidst the Siggraph meetings, I've done my best to read through the various forums and other online communities and respond as much as possible (as have other MAXON team members). It hasn't been easy - often trying to parse pages and pages of comments on a phone and pecking out responses on a tiny keyboard. I'm sorry we haven't been able to be more present here and that there's been confusion. 

 

I'm back home now, and I'll do my best to answer questions.

 

 

The communications (or lack of) around converting from perpetual to subscription very confusing and disappointing. The prices were available for people that have never used C4D, however it seemed like nothing solid was prepared for your current users. 

 

My license is with Ireland/UK and they said they're unable to comment on costs until September. That's very disappointing to hear. Can you please communicate what way the discounts will be.

 

Will the Redshift bundle be available at discount for two years as well?

 

Many of the presentations at Siggraph were excellent and I am looking forward to R21.

 

I don't have an issue with converting to subscription if the discount makes sense to move off perpetual.

 

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10 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

The communications (or lack of) around converting from perpetual to subscription very confusing and disappointing. The prices were available for people that have never used C4D, however it seemed like nothing solid was prepared for your current users. 

 

My license is with Ireland/UK and they said they're unable to comment on costs until September. That's very disappointing to hear. Can you please communicate what way the discounts will be.

 

Will the Redshift bundle be available at discount for two years as well?

 

Many of the presentations at Siggraph were excellent and I am looking forward to R21.

 

I don't have an issue with converting to subscription if the discount makes sense to move off perpetual.

 

Admittedly, we've had trouble communicating the conversion options - in part because they're largely dependent on your currency, current edition, you current expiration date, and the date you choose to convert.

 

A big part of our efforts here was to simplify the choices for new customers, so I think trying to explain every possible option for existing customers would've led to more confusion. In fact, there's lots of permutations that were added to the price list to help existing users with the transition.

 

The basic conversion offer is this - if you have an active MSA for an edition other than Studio, you can lock in 2 years at roughly the same price as your current MSA. If you have an active MSA for C4D Studio, you can lock in the first 2 years at a 20% discount. 

 

You have the option of adding 2 years of Redshift for the same price difference you see in the bundles (Looks like 480 GBP exVAT for 2 years in the UK).

 

Glad you enjoyed the Siggraph presentations! 

 

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I saw a video of the MAXON CEO saying “MAXON needs to be a global company”.

 

You can start to see what that means. You bully your customers, treat them like sh** and put them inline. Train them to be good little sheep. Make them perpetually dependent and bleed them for every dollar possible.

It’s how the big global banks and telecom providers do it.

 

To me they are now MAXOFF...and the enemy now.

 

 

With all respect, as IceCaveMan has been here a long time and deserves to be heard, this hyperbolic, insulting nonsense is a pain to read and does no-one any favours.

 

Autodesk is a global company. Here in Australia they regularly have free industry sessions where they show off their software to young graduates and have Disney animators visiting to show off the behind the scenes workflow from ZOOTOPIA and stuff like that.

 

The Foundry is a global company. Here in Melbourne Mariana Acuna Acosta was regularly flown out here to show off MODO and give big long inspirational speeches about how great the company and the software was. The Foundry guys bought everyone free beer and pizza and Mariana got up on stage in front of the graduates and said, guess what kids, MODO has a special discounted student special starting next week and you can all buy your MODO licenses for a low price. Lots of wide eyes and happy smiles as the graduates all drank and chatted to the Foundry folk and talked how they were keen to get into the software.

 

Digistor held a CINEMA 4D session in Melbourne and I saw it on a mailing list and thought I'd attend. This was just after Cineware had come out. A local After Effects guy gave a talk about some AE features, and I sat next to a Japanese guy who had relocated here and who was an expert at Softimage XSI. He was curious about C4D. Then a middle-aged woman with zero enthusiasm came out and ran through a demonstration of a car bumper being put onto the front of a vehicle - I later saw this exact same demonstration online from a more prominent trainer - and I kind of saw all the enthusiasm drain out of the room. No buzz and I remember wishing Tim Clapham had come down from Sydney to liven things up. From the age of the attendees it didn't seem to be a room of students either. Just folks in post and design who were C4D curious for the day.

 

If MAYA and MODO and other software packages are promoted on a subscription plan to young graduates who have left their studies, who are starting in the industry, with easy to install licensing, and with regular offers to get folks to resubscribe if they lapse, MAXON really should just pack things in if they don't remain competitive and gun for the same customers. This is so blindingly obvious - MAXON's competitors are global, and MAXON will invite trouble if they don't match their competitors strengths - that it boggles the mind that you'd see the comment as indicative of sinister intent. There was a Cinema 4D MeetUp group in Melbourne for a couple of months and I spoke to the guy who ran it. Within a short period of time he'd rebranded the MeetUp as only a few people attending had bought the Studio version of C4D, but everyone there was an Adobe subscriber, so it made more sense to keep shared billing rather than focusing on a software pack that lots of the visitors either hadn't been able to or hadn't been encouraged to buy.

 

David McGavran - who in the behind the scenes videos that have popped up online with him and Paul Babb and others, seems like a completely friendly and jovial and likeable guy - comes and visits this forum, which didn't happen too often with the other owners, and sends a friendly hello before giving what I found to be a sincere talk, certainly much more honest and passionate than his appearance on the Apple stage when he was with Adobe, and IceCaveMan and a few others here respond with really brutal cynicism and sarcasm. As I've mentioned before, this is the sort of snide language that IceCaveMan used against folks who were happily subscribing to the Adobe Creative Cloud. IceCaveMan - are you intending your comments labelling MAXON as bullies, and as the enemy, to accomplish anything productive? If you are, I can't imagine right now what it may be.

 

Here's a nice video below of Paul Babb and Dave McGavran chatting just after the Redshift announcement. McGavran seems honestly excited and sincere. And these are the guys who IceCaveMan tells us are bullies, who want to treat their customers with contempt, and who deserve to be scorned. To be honest I'm seeing ugly behaviour come from one side here, and it's not from the guys at MAXON.

 

The MAXON guys have likely noticed posts  - here and at CgTalk - from the 30 or 40 vocal regulars who are unhappy that their standard upgrade procedure with Studio has been chucked for an entirely new paradigm. But surfing around I've seen just as many posts from folks on Twitter, on Reddit, on the Luxology forums and elsewhere who have pretty much all said, "Wow! I can finally afford this! I'll definitely give it a shot." I just find it funny that folks who have been bemoaning the pace of C4D development for years drop to their knees and scream to the heavens when a guy comes along who wants to expand the community, get more people onboard and ramp things up.

 

Next time I visit one of the local post-production meet ups, I'll approach a handful of grads there and ask what they'd prefer, an AU $5610.00 C4D Studio purchase from Digistor, or an annual entry fee here that will probably land at around grand annually. I'll probably also ask how many are apprehensive that MAXON - who can't be too far from celebrating their 30 year anniversary, who just won an Academy Award and who just bought Redshift - will suddenly vanish from the internet and give everyone login errors when they try to activate their sub. 

 

I used to feel that millenials, as a whole, were a degree dumber and less informed in online discussions. This thread gives me solid evidence that I should probably consider the reverse proposition and give those newcomers a break.

 

 

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A general response that might address a number of questions and concerns:

 

I think it's clear that MAXON is moving faster than ever before in the past year since David started as CEO. We've reorganized the company, completed our first acquisition and developed a new option for selling and delivering our software. There's also been a great many positive internal changes y'all haven't seen. Each one of these efforts should have individually taken a year or more, but we've achieved quite a bit thanks to a great team that's extremely devoted to MAXON, Cinema 4D and our user community.

 

While this shouldn't serve as an excuse - it may provide a bit of explanation if you've noticed a bit of raggedness. It comes not from a lack of enthusiasm, but quite the contrary - perhaps a bit of over-enthusiasm that's led to taking on a lot in a little time. I really wish I'd been able to produce the Cineversity video content for the new release we've had in the past, because there's fantastic features and usability improvements in R21. There simply wasn't time to get it done before this year's Siggraph announcement.

 

The speed with which we're changing is the main reason I'd be hesitant to make firm commitments on release and delivery. It's not because we don't have plans, and not because we're trying to keep you in the dark or trick you. I'm amazed at what we've achieved in the last year, and it's hard to imagine how MAXON and the industry will continue to change over the next 3 years.

 

I can say personally that I've never worked harder in my life, and never been so excited about the work I'm doing. There's more pressure, drive and resources than ever to deliver the best products to the best user community.

 

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I have a quick question in the most chill relaxed tone of voice ever, but doesn't this seem like it should be reversed, or am I missing something here:

"The basic conversion offer is this - if you have an active MSA for an edition other than Studio, you can lock in 2 years at roughly the same price as your current MSA. If you have an active MSA for C4D Studio, you can lock in the first 2 years at a 20% discount. "

Because if that's the case wouldn't I want to ditch my studio license ASAP and try to swap it for a prime license since it would be considerably cheaper for the next two years, since that MSA was (correct me if I'm wrong), much cheaper than the Studio one? And if that's the case, wouldn't the Studio folks end up paying more for an incremental upgrade, while Prime customers would pay considerably less for a major upgrade to their feature set? That's all I'm confused about, but I probably am just confused.

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