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cinomadic

Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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I want to personally thank Rick, Igor, Srek,  Hrvoje and Cerbera.  And above all thanks to 3DKiwi, who has been a champ and done so much, founding this site. You each have been generous, gentlemanly, and enjoyable. I want to thank the many other cool posters here.

 

C4d and this forum have brought me a lot of good times. I won't disappear completely but it's time for me to (for the most part) move on. I've communicating my views...and said what I felt needed to be said.

 

Big Picture: I'll still hang out for now on the CG site. But time to say goodbye.

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4 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

Dave, the reaction shouldn't have come as a surprise. There would have been some very robust discussion in the Beta Tester's forum that I was once part of.

 

Do as I do and vote with your wallet.  I cancelled my daily newspaper from 1 August as the price had gone up again. I told them a year ago that next price increase I would be cancelling my subscription that I've had for many years. $3 a day for a newspaper is just too much. But I have just forked out US $399 for another's year's subscription / updates for Modo. I'm happy with the value for money I'm getting.

 

I paid $400 for a two year license for Houdini Indie. if I decide not to renew in two years it reverts back to Apprentice, still fully functional but can't use third party render, export FBX and a size limitation in animation/visual. Also, and this was big for me,  SideFX doesn't hammer you if you skip a few upgrades, still same price if you renew year to year or skip a few. Also they listen to their users. I found a bug, submitted it and two months later they pushed an update with the fix and  a few other fixes. Houdini isn't all unicorns and rainbows it has quirks but they are working on it.  

 

My worry with C4D would be will increase in subscription cost. would MAXON guarantee no price increases to subscriptions for several years? doubtful.  I'd hate to have all my eggs in the subscription basket for $60 a month then a few years down the road it goes up to 70 or 80 or 100 and you get priced out. if it were truly month to month, which my understanding it isn't, you could pay for a couple months to get your work in and export it then let subscription lapse and move on.

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23 minutes ago, connartist said:

I have a quick question in the most chill relaxed tone of voice ever, but doesn't this seem like it should be reversed, 

 

The basic idea here is to try to provide users of the various editions a bit of time to prepare for changes in the annual cost.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, bobc4d said:

if it were truly month to month, which my understanding it isn't, you could pay for a couple months to get your work in and export it then let subscription lapse and move on.

 

There's a monthly price and an annual price. As you can imagine it's cheaper in the long run with an annual commitment, but you'll certainly be able to subscribe for a single month. Keep in mind too that C4D offers the Cineware library for 3rd party apps to read and write the file format, and we've got great partners making use of that library. For instance, you can load a C4D in After Effects and render it.

 

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Thanks to all the MAXON people who take the time to read and answer our questions. 

I belong to the disillusioned users but also hear the challenges that MAXON is facing. 

 

I don’t know if there is an evil plot and do not care at this point but as stressed on several occasions, we need clarity on the options for existing  studio license  owners:

-upgrade pricing for perpetual licenses 

-inclusion of cineversity or not. 

-perpetual license availability beyond R21

-features va subscription license 

 

This will hopefully calm everybody down. 

 

Thank you all and again, I appreciate you took the time to post here, including David. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

As you noted several pages ago, we've been busy with Siggraph. Though not dealing with upset customers - quite the contrary. The customers we spoke with at the show (both existing customers and soon-to-be-customers) are very excited about the new options that are going to offer many more folks an opportunity to join the amazing Cinema 4D community. And despite the tone of some posts here, I do still believe this is the best community around any piece of software - so many folks willing to share their techniques and their time - including the 20+ presenters that you saw on C4DLive and many others who staffed demo stations in the MAXON, Redshift, Intel, AMD and Nvidia booths. So many partners have admired both the strength of our community and the excitement over our acquisition of Redshift and our new pricing, and they're eager to play a larger role in the C4D ecosystem. My week was largely spent with them and with customers.

 

Amidst the Siggraph meetings, I've done my best to read through the various forums and other online communities and respond as much as possible (as have other MAXON team members). It hasn't been easy - often trying to parse pages and pages of comments on a phone and pecking out responses on a tiny keyboard. I'm sorry we haven't been able to be more present here and that there's been confusion. 

 

I'm back home now, and I'll do my best to answer questions.

 

Rick,

 

There is one thing you need to unpack for me.

 

The 20% discount for R21 is not that attractive.  What kills me is that Prime MSA owners get Studio for the cost of a Prime MSA.  That is certainly way more than a 20% discount over two years.  That is just not fair.    By my math, that is a $470 savings that Prime users get over Studio users.  Studio users only get a $288 savings.  So you are still $182 short to being fair.

 

Honestly, you need to throw in Redshift for that two year period as well at the same price.  Yes...you need to go a little beyond what's fair to MAXON (advantage user) but then again it is our trust that you need to restore. 

 

Or give ALL current MSA owners (from Prime to Studio) a one year subscription for $250 (the cost of a Prime MSA).  There...you want simple....now that is simple.  I will gladly  give you $250 just to see how this prescription things works out (eg. will you really be giving feature updates in that one year period?).

 

Also, what is the cost for R20 Studio MSA owners to upgrade to an R21 perpetual license?  And please share how the EULA is being written regarding my rights to a perpetual license.  I would like to see specific wording that it will NEVER be shut off as I would imagine that the legal wording of "perpetual" is taken quite seriously in US courts.

 

Time to get real.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

There is one thing you need to unpack for me.

 

The 20% discount for R21 is not that attractive. 

 

Hey Dave,

 

Unfortunately it's difficult to be 'fair' to both camps. I think there's lots of benefit to all C4D users that we'll only have to worry about a single C4D edition from now on - there's certainly benefit to us from a product management and development perspective, and several third-party developers have told me they're really happy with the decision. But we didn't want to leave users of other editions completely out in the cold.

 

28 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Also, what is the cost for R20 Studio MSA owners to upgrade to an R21 perpetual license? 

 

R20 Studio MSA customers with a valid MSA in the beginning of September will receive an R21 perpetual license. 

 

28 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

And please share how the EULA is being written regarding my rights to a perpetual license.

 

I don't have the updated EULA handy - I'll see if I can track it down next week.

 

-Rick

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I have found alternatives to the tools i use in my work and the last thing was my 3D software.

Seems MAXON has now pushed me to find an alternative for it also.

I am not an animator so i am not that stuck to C4D like many others and Blender now is very much acceptable to work and thats were i will invest my time.

 

MAXON, you went to one of my favorite companys to one of the crapy ones. Hope you change, but i doubt it. Money is the compass of big companies and i see were you are heading. Thats life i guess. 

 

Thank you all who taught me directly and indirecly using C4D and modeling, rendering, texturing, etc. Those who replyed to my dumb questions, and those who shared their knowledge just because, and allowed a nobody like me to learn some stuff and manage to get a job. I am very, very thankful to you all.

 

Goodbye and good luck to all.

 

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@RBarrett, thanks for your answers, but there’s one question you haven‘t answered yet that everybody wants to know: 

how much will perpetual upgrade cost be after the msa conversion offer... so let’s say perpetual upgrade from r22 to r23? will it be something around the lines of current msa price or significantly higher? i think that’s what most people are worried about right now. also a clear statement if perpetual is here to stay or if there’s any plans to move to sub completely in a couple of years would help.  

 

edit: never mind, found your answers on cgtalk on those questions. i guess it's somewhat understandable that you can't make those long term commitments at this point because you don't know yet how current changes will pan out and how the market evolves. kind of unfortunate though, would have calmed a lot of people down. for my part, my faith about the good intentions at MAXON hasn't changed at all, and i welcome the move in general. an additional flexible sub model is a must have nowadays for a software company at that scale.

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1 hour ago, everfresh said:

 

 

edit: never mind, found your answers on cgtalk on those questions. i guess it's somewhat understandable that you can't make those long term commitments at this point because you don't know yet how current changes will pan out and how the market evolves. kind of unfortunate though, would have calmed a lot of people down. for my part, my faith about the good intentions at MAXON hasn't changed at all, and i welcome the move in general. an additional flexible sub model is a must have nowadays for a software company at that scale.

There were subs before if I’m not wrong...The ambiguous communication around the perpetual license and all the incentives to move to subs leaves little doubt about MAXON’s plans. The sole fact that cineversity is no longer offered to license owners is compelling evidence. 

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