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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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1 hour ago, Silvercity said:

This Rick's response to my question on CGTalk:
 

 

So, I'm not sure if this means that your older software will still work after you cancel or if it will only work as long as you're paying for a subscription.

A Pre V21 Perpetual Version (20, 19, 18,...) can´t be taken away.

As long as you ADD a subscription - not convert to.

Read the Fineprint carefully.

MAXON today isnt MAXON yesterday and all those (from MAXON) who are posting here, don´t like to clearify that. Or other facts. Right?

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5 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

Of course. Anyone can subscribe at any time.

 

What an "answer". Surly everyone can subscribe anytime.
Additional or what ever.

Seems, its very difficult to answer clear questions: Will we see Perpetual beyond V 21?

Do I loose V21 Perpetual if I convert to New Maxons Rental?
Meanwhile, I don´t think that this question will be answered clearly with yes or no.

I'm obviously not a person to talk to.

(Even Im a faithful - no longer - user since the beginning of MAXON)

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5 hours ago, Raischub said:

Do I loose V21 Perpetual if I convert to New Maxons Rental?

 

This has been answered numerous times with a very clear yes - that‘s exactly what „converting“ a license means and makes perfect sense. If you want to keep your r21, you don‘t convert and instead add an additional subscription to your account.

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1 hour ago, stomich said:

 

This has been answered numerous times with a very clear yes - that‘s exactly what „converting“ a license means and makes perfect sense. If you want to keep your r21, you don‘t convert and instead add an additional subscription to your account.

Sorry but I still don't think this is clear. Will the new licencing server even allow you to run 21 perpetual and a parallel additional subscription on the same machines. Maybe not.

 

If you're not 'converting' a licence - you're buying one then the other - does it work? Is it simply accepting the measly 'discount' on the sub that wipes out the perpetual licence? Or is your hand being forced.

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First post in this forum, hello everyone! Been a silent reader for many years and I really appreciate all the great knowledge that's shared around here.

 

I am also not satisfied with the way MAXON is treating existing MSA studio customers. So I sent a mail to MAXON Germany (@Raischub), asking them whether I'd loose the perpetual R21 license when I convert it to subscription, whether I'd then still be allowed to use my old pre-R20 licenses or not, how much I would have to pay with the 20% discount for two years of subscription including VAT and how the remaining months on my MSA were credited (e.g. if I switched to subscription in October, would that month still be credited?)

 

Here are the (translated) answers that I received

 

Quote

 

  1. Yes, you'd lose your perpetual license when you convert to subscription with the 20% discount. You are still allowed to use your old licenses, but you are not allowed to resell them anymore. 
  2. Our offer for existing MSA customers is a two-year-offer. You'd pay 959,81 € net (1142,17 € including VAT); after this two-year-period, you'd then pay the regular price (currently 599,88 € net per year) 
  3. If you convert to subscription in October and your MSA runs until December 31st, then we'd credit November and December to your subscription period.

 

 

So for anyone else in Germany, I hope this information is helpful.

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3 hours ago, Daniel Seebacher said:

First post in this forum, hello everyone! Been a silent reader for many years and I really appreciate all the great knowledge that's shared around here.

 

I am also not satisfied with the way MAXON is treating existing MSA studio customers. So I sent a mail to MAXON Germany (@Raischub), asking them whether I'd loose the perpetual R21 license when I convert it to subscription, whether I'd then still be allowed to use my old pre-R20 licenses or not, how much I would have to pay with the 20% discount for two years of subscription including VAT and how the remaining months on my MSA were credited (e.g. if I switched to subscription in October, would that month still be credited?)

 

Here are the (translated) answers that I received

 

 

So for anyone else in Germany, I hope this information is helpful.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

For clarification, on one hand its said you do loose your perpetual licence when converted, yet you can still use your old licences, this seems to contradict each other.  Is the answer more like this.  You will loose the perpetual licence that gets converted to subscription, but you can use older versions prior to the version you converted, in otherwords, you loose r20 when converted, but r19 or older you cam use but not sell?

 

Dan

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14 hours ago, connartist said:

If it's like Adobe did, I don't think once you convert it you can un-convert it, that's why they are giving you the 20% for two years. Which should be higher IMHO, since that is saying your $3500 license is only worth $300, which also doesn't make sense. I feel like these details weren't so well thought out, in a way that kinda makes me lose some confidence in them. What idiot is going to basically sell their $3500 license for $300? Or is MAXON just admitting that's all its worth now, post-subscription era?

Don´t like to say that, but Adobe did not go that far. You have at least left the CS6 suite. And I'm not sure if MAXON can / may disable earlier Perpetual Licenses (Pre 20). Even if you change into this bubble. Because the right to their permanent use has actually been purchased with every update.

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4 hours ago, Daniel Seebacher said:

First post in this forum, hello everyone! Been a silent reader for many years and I really appreciate all the great knowledge that's shared around here.

 

I am also not satisfied with the way MAXON is treating existing MSA studio customers. So I sent a mail to MAXON Germany (@Raischub), asking them whether I'd loose the perpetual R21 license when I convert it to subscription, whether I'd then still be allowed to use my old pre-R20 licenses or not, how much I would have to pay with the 20% discount for two years of subscription including VAT and how the remaining months on my MSA were credited (e.g. if I switched to subscription in October, would that month still be credited?)

 

Here are the (translated) answers that I received

 

 

So for anyone else in Germany, I hope this information is helpful.

@ Daniel Seebacher

Thank you for this - that´s clearifying a lot of things, which is missing in Maxons communication here, on the Website and elsewere.

One question remains open: Which version may I still use if I get out of the perpetual model? I have an existing MSA contract until 08 next year. So get the V21 anyway as perpetual. If I (hypothetically - I certainly will not do that) go into V21 and subscribe to the subscription model - which version can I continue to use if I stop paying? The V21 or ("...to use old licenses") V20?

 

Too bad that Maxons is so quiet about all this. They will know why.
But I think they do not just upset me.

 

"Loosing" your Perpetaul license can be interpreted in two ways: Loosing the right to sell it and/or loosing the right to use it.

I'm surprised that such a contract amendment is even possible. In my opinion, such an update violates the law that I have acquired with my perpetual licenses. In that respect, an "update" to a subscription model would actually have to be a repurchase contract between me and MAXON, where I sell the rights of my old license back virtually. The fine print would really interest me.

I wonder, if they can realy take me the right fo use V21 even if I jump into dependency. I´ve paid for the lifelong use with my MSA contract.

But beside all this: It´s realy a bad deal then. Because I give away a Software worth 3.5 K for an credit of 300. In this case I would recommend every Srudio-Owner who likes to rent: Sell your license (as long as there is interesst) and get a fresh subscription.

MAXON wouldn´t have made that thing, if they don´t know, that your license isn´t worth 3.5 K any longer because the immoral offers they make to newcommers, sound that promising to many (Uhhh, Huray, THAT cheap - for the moment).

I hate this new business model and I´m realy sorry about to leave MAXON. Sorry about all the PlugIns and AddOns (Vue XStream | XP | PIM | Turbulence | VRay & other Render-Engines | Forester | Model-library | and many others - wonder what I will get for) I bought in trusting into this company, which was once one of the best and fairest (was writing that in so many forums).
I think, they (MAXON) know exactly, why they can treat long-time users most - they are the most dependent.

And they will forget it over time.

 

Nope - It´s like a Dejavue I had with Adobe. But I replaced them - why not again. Competition is great and not that far away.

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Welcome.
I read all these posts and I am heartbroken and amused at the same time with the despair that many present. You are looking for conspiracies and dramatizing the situation.
And yet everything is clear and obvious! So maybe I will help and explain in points.

  1. Everyone who has active MSA on September 1 will get a perpetual version of R21 + access to Cineversity - nothing changes here for MSA owners.
  2. The validity of access to Cineversity for MSA owners ends on the day the MSA expires.
  3. If someone wants to have access to Cineversity after this time and does not want a Cinema 4D subscription, they can buy independent access, as it is at the moment. MAXON plans special offers for MSA owners as MSA ends. These offers are not yet known.
  4. Anyone who has any version of Cinema 4D without MSA will be able to upgrade any version to perpetual R21 - that is, as it was, but there will be a bonus for owners of older versions of Cinema 4D who can upgrade to the perpetual version at a more attractive, the same price.
  5. From September 3, the R21 subscription will appear on the MyMaxon website for purchase in monthly (84.99 Euro net payable monthly) and annual (49.99 Euro net payable in advance = 599.88 Euro net) + mutations with RedShift.
  6. Anyone who has MSA (regardless of what Cinema 4D version they had before) will get perpetual R21 and will be able to have any number of subscriptions at the same time - one is not mutually exclusive. So you can, for example, buy a monthly or annual R21 subscription at the normal price and have a perpetual R21 all time - all on one account.
  7. During the MSA you can, but do not have to, convert your perpetual version to subscription. This conversion gives a 20% discount on subscriptions for two years, but you lose a perpetual R21 (this is a bundled transaction, the discount comes from somewhere). Then all previous versions up to R20 are still valid. There are people who have always bought MSA always wanting to have the latest version and have no attachment to the old versions, so it's attractive to them.
  8. When someone updates their MSA in August now, they are in a very good position. It has its perpetual R21 and can easily wait what MAXON will present next year in August.
  9. The prices of the perpetual update R21 to R22 will be known later, probably next year during the presentation of R22.
  10. Versions from R21 can be installed on any number of computers. You can remotely take over licenses - i.e. you go home and take over the license on a laptop. Licensing is checked every 14 days to make sure that someone under one license uses Cinema 4D on 10 computers.
  11. Since the R21 version there are no serial numbers, hence the plugins that required the number must be updated. Those that did not require a serial number will work.

So to sum up. If you have active MSA in September, you get perpetual R21 + Cineversity. When MSA expires, you'll be able to continue using it and purchasing only Cineversity access. When R22 appears next year, you will be able to upgrade your perpetual R21 to perpetual R22 at the price announced next year. You will also be able to convert (if you have MSA active) your perpetual R21 in R22 and then in R23 with a 20% discount (but you lose the perpetual R21). You do not have to convert or upgrade your perpetual version but buy a subscription at a normal price, monthly or yearly. You stay with perpetual R21 and you have the R22 subscription.

 

Everything that I wrote above is explained many times and on the MAXON website and on the forums, I do not understand what is incomprehensible to someone here.

 

Personally, I am very happy with the subscription. It will be appreciated by everyone who has a company that is developing and when new jobs need to be prepared. It also gives you the chance to standardize different versions of Cinema and other older 3D programs in the company (e.g. Softimage).

 

Thank you MAXON! :)

 

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18 hours ago, Raischub said:

all those (from MAXON) who are posting here, don´t like to clearify that. Or other facts. Right?

None of the MAXON employees posting here are tasked with sales communication, Noone will comment on licensing, prices etc.

Effectively everyone but Rick and Dave is here on a private base and not in a position to give that kind of legaly relevant information. That is not something new but was always the case. Especially with so many varying upgrade options as there currently are it is important for all involved to get things right. If the public information is insufficient for you, please get in contact with MAXON directly, as many already did.

 

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Will be getting r21  (as my MSA ends in July 2020 and I already paid). So, what to do?

 

r21 breaks all plugins, so I doubt I will be using the new version at all until maybe December at the earliest. Will start learning another 3D app on the side in the meantime, always meant to, but now there is a good reason to. Will see if MAXON fixes their mesh creation core - it is terrible at the moment, generates unholy polygon meshes that need endless fixing. If by next year r22 is the same snore-fest as r21 I'll know that i'll start converting all my libraries and old jobs to another format, baking away animations, etc. (also will have my older permanent versions for this task (just made full backups of previous installers and downloaded and backed up various updaters - I suggest you do the same).

 

My guess is in 2 years when the initial thrill of the subscriptions start losing seats - and they will - as not everyone can do 3D work (note: did you know that certain people have an aptitude for "spatial relations" - specifically the ability to see in 3D in their heads? There aren't a huge number who have that skill - remember the rotating cube with cutouts tests you may have taken?). Software ain't gonna help this - and very complicated software at that. The seats will dropoff after management sees only a few people able to operate it. Revenue will drop and MAXON will be out looking for a base that may have left the building. Only hope MAXON has is to really blow everyone away with features - but I doubt it, as we are now dealing with the corporate, bean-counting MAXON now. That's why McGavaran led off with bevels - that's about what he actually understands about 3D. Thinks people will pay $750+ per year for 3D text. Ha! MBA's are screwing up another company, it's their special skill.

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