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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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43 minutes ago, renegade said:

The seats will dropoff after management sees only a few people able to operate it. Revenue will drop and MAXON will be out looking for a base that may have left the building. 

 

eerrmm... what??? :D why would there be less people able to operate it than before? that just doesn't make any sense at all. just like most of the rest of your post. what's a mesh creation core?

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Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2019 at 3:38 PM, Arte said:

...9. The prices of the perpetual update R21 to R22 will be known later, probably next year during the presentation of R22.

...When R22 appears next year, you will be able to upgrade your perpetual R21 to perpetual R22 at the price announced next year.

@Arte

Thanks a lot for clarifying. I can find small parts of what you wrote at Maxons Site and in Forums.

But I found NO reference, where MAXON is OFFICIAL PROMISSING that there will be a perpetual Version 22 (or 23).

So my question:

Is that something you you think logical or do you have this statement officially from MAXON?
Or can you name an indication of source?

(BtW Adobe promised also a lot and "CS6 will be the last upgrade-able Version" was simply a lie)

I can´t find any source where a MAXON Represent guarantees a Perpetual V22, or the promise, that you can jump from Perpetual 21 to Perpetual V22. (V22 -> V23). 

The Promise, that there will be Perpetual beside Subscriptions in the long run.

If they would guarantee, that Perpetual will stay beside Subscription would give the whole Story another Face.

 

Quote

You will also be able to convert (if you have MSA active) your perpetual R21 in R22 and then in R23 with a 20% discount ..

But...

Why do they cancel the MSA contracts? And why you can´t extend your MSA in 09/19?

That´s why I´m sure they go the Adobe way.
As far as I know, all MSAs are OFF next September.

So this information can´t be true in my eyes, because no one has an active MSA in Sept. 2020.

And therefore I believe - no, I´m sure - that we will NOT see a V22 Perpetual. It will be: "stay Perp. 21 or leave".

(And maybe the lack of functionality (V21) results in being picked up for V22 - New MAXON isn´t MAXON as we know in the past)

Maybe I´m wrong and you can clearify again.
So is there any indication of source?
Elsewise this information leads to even more confusion and should be corrected or deleted.

Meanwhile I´m looking for Alternatives.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 3:38 PM, Arte said:

Everything that I wrote above is explained many times and on the MAXON website and on the forums, I do not understand what is incomprehensible to someone here.

I can´t find any of this information on Maxons Website (beside the prices)!?

The explanations there are more than tenuous.

 

With Cinema I lose a cherished and valuable tool - and many other investments are also affected.
I can only wonder with what serenity many accept the rental model.

Edited by Raischub
detailing

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18 hours ago, Arte said:

Everything that I wrote above is explained many times and on the MAXON website and on the forums, I do not understand what is incomprehensible to someone here.

 

Well, you obviously don’t understand our concerns or don’t bother to. Listing  publicly stated facts from MAXON doesn’t do a lot to ease the concerns people have. 

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@Rectro @Raischub

 

Sorry, I made a typo. The answer was meant to read "pre-R21-licenses". I specifically asked MAXON if I would be loosing the R21 perpetual license and they said "yes, the perpetual license will be removed and you will get a new R21 license as a subscription license, and yes, you would still be allowed to use any older perpetual license you own ( = everything up to R20)."

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11 minutes ago, Daniel Seebacher said:

@Rectro @Raischub

 

Sorry, I made a typo. The answer was meant to read "pre-R21-licenses". I sepcifically asked MAXON if I would be loosing the R21 perpetual and they said "yes, the perpetual license will be removed and you will get it back as a new subscription license, and yes, you would still be allowed to use any older perpetual license you own ( = everything up to R20).

Once again: Thank you for that helpful information.

That´s clearifying that point.

Seems the conversion to subscription is planed as an repurchase of rights on your perpetual license while at the same time giving you a "new subscription".

And with that I lose the possibility of selling my Perpetual license.

I'm actually amazed that this should be legal.

No good deal in my eyes - but thanks a lot!

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9 minutes ago, Raischub said:

I'm actually amazed that this should be legal.

 

 

Nobody is being forced to convert their R21 perpetual into a subscription. 

 

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47 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

 

Nobody is being forced to convert their R21 perpetual into a subscription. 

 

That would clearly not be legal, of course.

 

But with buying a Perpetual license, you regularily buy also a lifelong right to use and sell it.

(That defers between countries, but here in GER its the way it is).

So I´m waiting for the Fineprint how this "convertion" will be done.

Changing a contract from Perpetual to Supscription isn´t an update or upgrade.

It´s a totaly different new contract, which takes away benefits that you already own.

Interesting from a legal point of view .

Especially the point, that they don´t (can´t) take away (buy back) the ability to use Pre-21 Versions.

Wonder why.

It's not fairness, I suppose, but has legal reasons.

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While confusion still reigns supreme over pretty much everything (...and this was supposed to be a simplification over having Prime, Visualize, Broadcast and Studio???  Yea..right).

 

While everything other than subscriptions is still uncertain, then you have to think about all the possible ways people could use subscriptions to their advantage and not Maxons:

 

  • Only go monthly...never perpetual and never buy 12 months all at once.  Honestly, for the cost of the monthly price ($82.99) you could keep R20 (that can never be turned off) and use the latest version for up to ($59.99x12)/$81.99 = 8 months a year and save money.   8 months is a long time.
  • Really start to think about exactly WHAT you need from the latest version and how long you will need it.  If you can get away with ONLY a month or two of the new features, then you are way ahead of the game.   This is especially true for NON STUDIO users.  You will be spending more for a subscription than you did in the past.  Having Studio is nice, but are you really going to use all those new features 12 months of the year?  So be very selective over what you need from the later versions.   Can you learn the new features, use them in a new project and take it to final render in less than 8 months needs to be a final consideration.
  • When you finish a project, convert it to FBX so that you can still use some of it in R20.  I have been playing around with C4D FBX import and export and it works quite well - especially when it is export by C4D and imported by C4D.   Textures and textures channels are preserved quite well whereas FBX import from other programs do require more work to import into C4D. That may be a good strategy to get around losing your work but still benefiting from the new features. Future advancements to mograph, animation, rigging, and texturing will not be able to be saved from later versions in an FBX file in a non-destructive manner.   Things will need to be baked or cached prior to FBX export. 
  • Stay on this plan for a period of time could save you enough money that in the future you could purchase a completely new perpetual license.  But that could easily take up to 5+ years for you to hit a break-even-point and by then they may no longer be offering perpetual licenses.

This is some of my thinking on how to AVOID giving MAXON as much money as possible.  I used to be loyal and even when some of the releases were not up to par, I still paid my MSA because I knew that in time MAXON would treat its loyal customers well with some really impressive features as they did in R20.  But in more ways than one, that ended with R20.  MAXON has forced me to think the way their new management is thinking:  It is now all about the money.  Loyalty has nothing to do with it.

 

That's why I am so keen on what happens with R21 perpetual.  I do feel that will be the last perpetual license and it puts me that much further ahead IF R21 LICENSE STAYS ACTIVATED AFTER A MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION ENDS and I approaching using C4D as mentioned above.

 

But I fear that because they have this monthly only option, using it selectively is probably why they will not allow perpetual licenses to re-activate once a monthly subscription ends.

 

At which point, I go to Blender.  If only Insydium ported XP to Blender....life would again be perfect.

 

Dave

 

 

 

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I received my email from MAXON concerning purchasing the latest MSA. In it, even they recommend the MSA over subscription: "Because renewing the MSA gives you a lot more, we highly recommend that you renew, and the cutoff date in the U.S. / Canada will be Friday, August 30."

 

Unfortunately, I won't be moving forward with C4D. Here was my response:

 

 

"Thanks for the additional information; however, I’ve decided not to renew my MSA or to purchase a subscription.

 

Sadly, as a user since R14, I’ve decided not to move forward with Cinema 4D. I’m firmly against subscription software. I’m still using Adobe CS6 and have invested in Affinity’s software and Corel Painter to support their ongoing efforts to provide users with a perpetual license option.

 

Concerning the MSA, the cost for Studio users is so unfair, I can’t in good conscience purchase the MSA for R21. Knowing that a Prime user can purchase an MSA and receive the same R21 version as I will at a quarter of the price is outrageous, especially since their initial license purchase was so much lower than mine. MAXON seems to only be catering to new users without rewarding their existing base, and the MSA pricing differences for the same version is an undeniable example.

 

Additionally, I wanted to purchase the MSA so at least I would have an R21 perpetual license in case a perpetual license is no longer available after this release. I have read that they will be; however, with the ending of the MSA program, the lack of information on the plans for perpetual licenses and the pricing, and the hard push to subscriptions, I can’t in good faith believe that perpetuals will continue to be available, or, if they are, they may not be available at a reasonable price.

 

Finally, with the requirement of the R21 software needing to “call home” every 14 days, MAXON will have the option in the future to possibly discontinue verifying that version. I previously would have thought that such an idea was ridiculous, that a company would never do that; however, Autodesk, a subscription-only software company, is now trying to discontinue the rights of their perpetual license holders and force them to subscriptions, so I no longer think that is an impossible assumption.

 

I appreciate all of the help you’ve provided, and I know losing one MSA customer won’t mean much to management; however, voting with my money is the only remaining option I have. I’ll continue with R20 and am in the process of transitioning to Blender.

 

Thanks again."

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57 minutes ago, Raischub said:

Especially the point, that they don´t (can´t) take away (buy back) the ability to use Pre-21 Versions.

Wonder why.

It's not fairness, I suppose, but has legal reasons.

That’s actually a pretty simple technical reason: They can’t. Up to and including R20 they use serial numbers. Serial numbers are valid within the installation and up to R20 don’t validate online. They can’t revoke your serial. The whole system is offline with no point for MAXON to intervene after they gave you your serial. You could interchange your serial with someone else and they couldn’t know or do something about it.

 

From R21 on, they completely abandoned this system. It’s online-activation only, for all types of licences. The licence information is stored solely on MAXONs servers.

 

It’s as simple as that.

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6 minutes ago, Macgyver said:

That’s actually a pretty simple technical reason: They can’t. Up to and including R20 they use serial numbers. Serial numbers are valid within the installation and up to R20 don’t validate online. They can’t revoke your serial. The whole system is offline with no point for MAXON to intervene after they gave you your serial. You could interchange your serial with someone else and they couldn’t know or do something about it.

 

From R21 on, they completely abandoned this system. It’s online-activation only, for all types of licences. The licence information is stored solely on MAXONs servers.

 

It’s as simple as that.

Tx. Sometimes you do not see the forest for the trees ...

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22 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

I received my email from MAXON concerning purchasing the latest MSA. In it, even they recommend the MSA over subscription: "Because renewing the MSA gives you a lot more, we highly recommend that you renew, and the cutoff date in the U.S. / Canada will be Friday, August 30."

 

Unfortunately, I won't be moving forward with C4D. Here was my response:

 

 

"Thanks for the additional information; however, I’ve decided not to renew my MSA or to purchase a subscription.

...

 

I really wonder what the response will be on this. However, I already know the answer.

The contract states that cancelling the MSA should be done 3 months prior the renewing date. Which in your case, as in mine, the cancelling should have been sent, in written form, before April 30th.

Legally, we're unfortunately bound to renew.

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