Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
cinomadic

Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

Recommended Posts

And the three men I admire most, the Father, Son…and the Holy Ghost…they took the last train to the coast…the day…the music died.

 

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also fear that more of the larger plugin developers may come to the same conclusion. 

 

Again, I expect the biggest churn in the user base to be in the single license PRIME user or single person NEW user.    Yes. They will be paying more but they are no longer locked into using C4D.  Their overall initial investment is very low and therefore easier to walk away from especially if there are no penalties for letting your subscription lapse for months or years.  And as stated before, they may not like the idea of having to pay $470 more per year over their MSA for an annual subscription . This would be especially true if they are not using all the additional features that Studio gives them.

 

Also, if I was a new user, I would NOT sign up for the annual subscription.  Not sure if a 14 day trial is enough time for a new user to feel comfortable enough with the program  to commit to something that you ONLY get to use for a year.  In the past, if you did make a commitment to C4D, you at least had it forever and it was easier to commit to the cost of Prime than the cost for Studio.  But not anymore.  If I was a new user, I would step in for maybe a month and see how it goes.  Some will stay, others will not.

 

So, if the make-up of the C4D user base switches from old-timers like us to NEW or Prime users who just stick a toe in the water for a few months or a year, then those people are not going to be spending big money on plugins. Not sure how much of the user base this represents, but I would imagine the vendors of the higher cost plugins (Insydium, 3D Quakers, C4DPlugin, Paul Everett) may be looking at their user base to determine what part of it is made up of hobbyists.   

 

Either way, new user or subscriber, would you buy a plugin for software that you don't own and only rent?  That's why the subscription model has to expand to include some of the major plugins as well and be part of the same package at the same price.  Then things get interesting. 

 

But if not, and we lose our plugin developers, then I think the only people to keep C4D will ultimately be those making a living wage from it.  The rest of us will go to Blender.

 

My hope is that the plugin developers view this as  an opportunity to seize a new market in the Blender community and look to the ex-C4D users in that community as a built-in word-of-mouth advertising.  Either that or they make every upgrade backward compatible to R20...which will get old over time.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Icecaveman said:

And the three men I admire most, the Father, Son…and the Holy Ghost…they took the last train to the coast…the day…the music died.

 

image.png

 

Yep....they were forced out by Nemetshek (the true villain here).  It is highly unlikely that three people all decide that retiring at the same time is in each of their own mutual best interests. 

 

They knew what was coming and I am sure packed as much as they could  into R20 as one final gift to their loyal customers.  Very glad that they went out on a high note...saw C4D win an Oscar, etc.

 

My heart goes out to them though....because I honestly feel that for them to witness all the anger in the community will be like watching the home you built with your bare hands be over run by rats.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

My hope is that the plugin developers view this as  an opportunity to seize a new market in the Blender community and look to the ex-C4D users in that community as a built-in word-of-mouth advertising.  Either that or they make every upgrade backward compatible to R20...which will get old over time.

 

 

I am only providing my own point of view, of course, but as a plugin developer it means you have a decent understanding of the application and know how things work. I am comfortable using C4D, while Blender ... well, never tried it (yet).

It takes quite some time to be fluent with an application, and even more so if you want to write plugins, add-ons, or extensions.

For this reason I don't see myself switch to Blender for plugin development, before having mastered the application. I worked with C4D for 10 years before I stepped into the world of C4D plugins ...

Using C4D was a hobby, writing C4D plugins is (was?) a hobby ...

Others might have a different view, or a different opinion. This is mine.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AEscripts.com is still doing well i think... despite after effects is sub only. so while i theory i guess you are right, reality is if people use a program on a regular basis and make money using it and need a certain added functionality that the vanilla software doesn't come with, they are going to spend money. i guess i makes more sense then if the plugins are also subscription based, since buying permanent licenses for plugins that run on a rented software is a bit of an odd concept, i agree on that. well, and yet i have a gazillion scrips and plugins for after effects (most of them i bought before the CC era though)....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In some regions the MSA was offered as part of an automatically-renewing contract, in others it was manually renewed each year - so policies differ by region.

 

As far as the question as to why MSA is being discontinued - I think it honestly comes down to trying to simplify things. It would be confusing I think for both us and users to have two different types of subscription, and it would be really difficult to manage the accounting side for both. A real focus of this effort was to simplify the product & pricing options, because we recognized how much confusion they were causing. That's why we've eliminated the editions and why we're only presenting 5 options on the website (one of which is Perpetual - I feel I have to keep reminding folks).

 

With regard to plugins - our vibrant community of third-party developers is one of Cinema 4D's greatest strengths. For various reasons (almost all technical), we didn't give developers as much of a heads-up as I'd like, but I hope they're as excited as I am about the potential for a large increase in the Cinema 4D user base. It's true many will have to adjust their licensing, and in some cases it'll make sense to adjust pricing. Unfortunately that's unavoidable - but I think there's a great opportunity here as well. If any developers reading this have concerns, I'd love to chat with them directly - just send me a PM so we can start the conversation.

 

Some folks seem to be latching on to the idea that McGavran "started with Bevels". In fact, he started with Field Forces and said that was his favorite feature. The new Caps & Bevels - which happens to be MY favorite feature - was the second thing he announced. I think there's great balance in these two features - one very advanced toolset and another that's designed to make it easier to achieve one of the most basic tasks in 3D. Both are implemented in a very MAXON way - a workflow that's easy to understand, invites artistry and experimentation, and provides access to powerful real-world functionality.

 

-Rick

 

(Sorry for the delayed responses - I left early Friday and took Saturday off for some R&R. Wasn't trying to duck questions - just promised my wife I'd put the computer away for our anniversary.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

As far as the question as to why MSA is being discontinued - I think it honestly comes down to trying to simplify things. It would be confusing I think for both us and users to have two different types of subscription, and it would be really difficult to manage the accounting side for both. A real focus of this effort was to simplify the product & pricing options, because we recognized how much confusion they were causing. That's why we've eliminated the editions and why we're only presenting 5 options on the website (one of which is Perpetual - I feel I have to keep reminding folks).

So we are 52 pages into this thread.  Feeling simple and less confusing yet?

 

Not sure why you just couldn't make everything really simple and just have the MSA and subscriptions and both be priced the same. 

 

Benefits of MSA - you get to own the software and it NEVER shuts off (no license manager).  But essentially it is the same MSA program we have always had.  If you leave it, the costs to upgrade can be significant.  If this worked for 5 products, then keeping it for just one product is certainly a step towards simplification.

Benefits of subscription: Essentially pay for only as long as you need it per the monthly or yearly plan and you get updates faster (MSA owners have to wait until the next MSA period to get an update).  Fail to keep the subscription updated and the license manager shuts you down.  Want to switch to MSA, you pay the upgrade costs just as before and no different than what MSA owners pay.

 

What really get's people upset is the license manager for "perpetual licenses".  Do you really own something that can be shut off remotely?  If you don't think that is a problem for some people, give me your RFID codes for your remote car starter. 

 

The tripping point isn't subscription vs perpetual.  The tripping point is having a license manager for perpetual.  If that goes, you will preserve you user base.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RBarrett said:

As far as the question as to why MSA is being discontinued - I think it honestly comes down to trying to simplify things.

Thanks for that answer.

But going on with simplyfing the things: One Option will be the simplest at least.
Any knowledge about, if MAXON will offer these - headache preparing and complicated - Perpetaul Licenses beyond Version 21?
Will we see a Perpetual V22?
A Perpetual V23?

A Perpetual V24?

A Perpetual V25?

 

- Sometimes no answer is the answer -

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

Dear Rick,

Thank you for facing the wave of outrage.
But... I hope you've noticed that this whole simplification is just progress for MAXON, not for the existing users.
- MAXON only has one software version left to maintain, but Prime users now have to triple their payments.
- MAXON implements a new licensing system and can thus have better control over its customers (and only have to maintain one version). But customers can't be sure if MAXON won't shut down the license server for old versions.
- MAXON simplifies its accounting by abolishing the MSA. But from now on, at best, customers will have to pay more for an annual update (but there is no guarantee that it will continue to be offered).
- MAXON is euphoric because it hopes to get many new users. But, the existing users feel cheated and passed over. (by the way, many of those who make up this great community)

 

With all the answers posted here in the forum, I have the feeling that MAXON is confusing its own benefit with the benefit to the user. And this thread should be a sufficient sign that your userbase is not euphoric.

 

All the best
Jops

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

What really get's people upset is the license manager for "perpetual licenses".  Do you really own something that can be shut off remotely?  If you don't think that is a problem for some people, give me your RFID codes for your remote car starter. 

 

The tripping point isn't subscription vs perpetual.  The tripping point is having a license manager for perpetual.  If that goes, you will preserve you user base.

 

Actually, considering I can start my car using my phone, I'm pretty sure Kia could decide to start or stop it if they wish.  But I have faith that Kia won't stop me from using my car because I'm not sure why they'd have any reason to stop it. 

 

I've got to say this one surprises me most. I understand that some organizations have to be offline for security reasons (and we have solutions for them), but I did not expect an issue with the MyMaxon activation. Online activation would likely have come about regardless of whether subscription was introduced - it's simply easier and more secure (for both us and you) than shuffling temporary and permanent serial numbers around. And we didn't just limit users to online activation, but actually added the feature of signing in and out to activate other machines on the fly. Even as someone who has always had access to as many serial numbers as I wanted and the system for mailing them out, it's so much nicer to simply sign in with a username and password on any computer and start using Cinema 4D. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RBarrett said:

 

Actually, considering I can start my car using my phone, I'm pretty sure Kia could decide to start or stop it if they wish.  But I have faith that Kia won't stop me from using my car because I'm not sure why they'd have any reason to stop it. 

 

I've got to say this one surprises me most. I understand that some organizations have to be offline for security reasons (and we have solutions for them), but I did not expect an issue with the MyMaxon activation. Online activation would likely have come about regardless of whether subscription was introduced - it's simply easier and more secure (for both us and you) than shuffling temporary and permanent serial numbers around. And we didn't just limit users to online activation, but actually added the feature of signing in and out to activate other machines on the fly. Even as someone who has always had access to as many serial numbers as I wanted and the system for mailing them out, it's so much nicer to simply sign in with a username and password on any computer and start using Cinema 4D. 

 

 

It's the same with all these online applications and calling home services: you can trust them or not.
No one guarantees you which data will be transmitted, which not. Which profiles will result.
Furthermore, the activation server must be reachable.
Be it I'm abroad and may have no way to go online or restrictions in the country prevent that.
Or the registration server at MAXON itself is not reachable.
There is no 100% guarantee for this - as some big names in the market (even Adobe) have already proven.
Can cost you a lot at the worst possible moment.
What else would happen if MAXON / Nemetschek (Adobe?) Did not exist one day ...?
I guess only a few had problems with serial numbers in the past and why should the activation server be safer for me?
For MAXON - Yes, of course, I can understand that.

Further to think about: MAXON can now simply turn off old versions as you like. Put the case - for whatever reason (WIN 10 problem for example) - I want to use an old (maybe even an very old) operating system. MAXON has raised the requirements for this. There is nothing left for me to do but change the operating system. Exactly because there are these rental models, I have a variety of OS versions (some virtual) to avoid exactly this problem.
With all due respect - I always feel that disadvantages are being sold to me as advantages.

Adobe Dejavues again and again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

I've got to say this one surprises me most. 

 

Maybe because you underestimate how much trust MAXON lost.

People are still in the shock about Adobe. This arrogant way in which the company has overcome the concerns of its long-standing customers has left a deep mark.
And now MAXON is doing the same in the eyes of many. Even if you're certainly not the one to blame (you are here to answer questions).
But in my personal opinion, MAXON's lack of communication and willingness to compromise has not only lost a few customers. MAXON also lost much more trust than you imagine right now.
But shurely you can compensate it with a lot of new subscibers.

 

best regards

Jops

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

Latest Topics

Latest Comments

×
×
  • Create New...