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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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1 hour ago, MikeA said:

Dan - I hope you're right.

The way I try to look at things are If I really dont know how something is going to turn and its  out of my control, it could go either way, so I rest on hope once I have tried to find the answers first.  While Im waiting Im not emotionally working myself up fearing the worse when it could well not happen.

 

Now if the worse does happen I deal with it then, Iv still saved myself a year of complaining, worrying about something I cant control, but maybe take that time to consider my options.  If the worse case does not happen then Im thankful I didn't waste time and energy worrying.  I know its easier said than done but its much better for the sole in trying to look at the glass half full, even if everyone else is saying otherwise.  

 

So while there are many questions unsolved, until then Iv got to crack on, get something done with my time, and spend time making something happen that is in my control.  Help other people, get that job done, spend time with kids, family, turn the computer off  maybe.

 

Dan

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Yes, I think that's a good approach. Enjoy the rest of your weekend : )

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18 hours ago, kbar said:

 

Yes I did the same with Adobe when I needed it. I got a discount by agreeing to lock into 1 year and my monthly amount worked out at $70 per month vs $120 if I paid monthly. So does it really matter? Are you intending on only using Cinema 4D for just 1 month? Do you only want to pay for every second month? If your intending on using it for a full year then get the discount and pay the 61.47 euros a month. If not then you can pay purely on an ad-hoc monthly basis and pay $104.54 euros per month. Its up to you and when you need a licence. 

 

I just don't see what all the uproar is with regards to the argument about the monthly not being monthly. If you don't need it for a few months they go pure monthly. All depends on what you want to use C4D for. Better than shelling out over $3500 bucks when your not even sure if you will use it for a couple of weeks.

 

Not a fair comparison.

 

If you agree to Adobe's discounted, 1-yr contract you pay on a monthly basis—not one, lump sum. Not so with MAXON's Annual Subscription; where the price is displayed with a monthly figure ($59 [USD]).

 

This is why people are upset.

 

If pricing was $59 / mo, billed monthly (i.e. month-to-month)... they might be on to something [good, for many people / "the world"]. (Heck, throw in Redshift at $59 / mo and people would, probably, be quite excited! :smiley-greet008:)

 

In reality, your price nearly doubles once you go from Annual to Monthly Sub.

 

--

 

I, personally, refuse to subscribe, going forward, and can't stand the 14-day "call-in", either. This is why I am not planning to upgrade, in any form, including Perpetual. (Too bad for INSYDIUM, Next Limit and other companies, too!) I have never pirated MAXON's software, nor have I ever violated their license agreement. I just don't like the "new way". (And, I fully understand the flexibility of it, too.)

 

I don't like how MAXON has handled this announcement—at all. (Which stinks, because I can only guess how much work goes into an annual event / release like this. I feel like the pricing and offerings are not consistent with what they're marketing.)

 

I have been a long-time customer of MAXON. (More than a decade, now!) But, I'm feeling pretty upset for people that purchased a full, Studio license in the months leading up to SIGGRAPH—in addition to the long-time customers / supporters / MSA subscribers / etc. :sad:

 

--

 

We're all just giving our opinions. (Some are more factually-based than others. Ha-ha. :wackywink::lol:)

 

Just trying to make sense of all of this—even though I have made other plans, moving forward. (Not sure whether to be angry or grateful, at this point. :306: I guess I don't fit their ideal customer profile any longer.)

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I suspect a lot of people who do stay on board are going to find R21 largely useless. It's going to break the great majority of plugins, and some plugin vendors will choose never to provide an upgrade path....it's going to be quite a big hassle now for them.

 

Certainly Insydium and Otoy...the bigger players will sort it out and continue onwards. Others won't.

 

Some of us rely a lot of plugins and thus the idea of purchasing one final MSA--one last perpetual license-- just has no appeal at all. It's a case where a big anchor* on little boat** ...isn't something to sensibly take out to sea.

 

* breaking of needed plugins, MAXON phoning home, new insulting corporate style

** meager new features: 4k dpi, bevels, weighting enhancements

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13 hours ago, MikeA said:

 

It's very simple: it's dishonest.

 

 

 

Exactly my point. 

 

And it's also illegal in some countries. False advertising.

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12 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

So doesn’t Blender do all this without plugins....for $0 per month or (if you don’t like subscriptions) or for $0 for the perpetual license.  And you can either pay $0 a month or the slightly higher fee of $0 annually for the perpetual license as well.  Unfortunately, the perpetual license needs to connect to the license server 0 times every 14 days to stay active.

 

You just gotta love 0!

 

Dave

 

Yes, I totally agree with you. Blender is a real danger for MAXON and Autodesk. But Autodesk realizes this, as we can infer by the Maya and Max indie versions. But MAXON seems to be totally blind about this. 

 

I'm software agnostic, even though Cinema 4D is my favorite app. Professionally I use both C4D and Maya, usually together (Maya for characters and animation, C4D as a hub for everything else). And I always tried to use Blender but it was UNUSABLE before 2.8.

 

But with Blender 2.8 I just needed to change the keymap preset to "industry compatible" and, in 10 minutes, I was able to quickly model, texture and render a figure in a very similar way to what I would do in C4D (similar right-click contextual menus). 

 

And as I you noted, Blender is actually MORE powerful than C4D. it's actually on par with Maya - but now is friendlier. 

I fear for MAXON future if they don't lower their prices ASAP. Sure, they will survive for some years because they are the standard in motion graphics but this won't last without either a lower price or more features.

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I'm getting swallowed up in a non 3D work project but in a week using Blender I felt immediately comfortable doing some modeling, doing a cloth animation, playing with particles, and was quite surprised at the ease of use (and quality) of their fluid sims.

 

Fire, smoke, particles, Grease-Pencil, better modeling and UVing, two quality renderers (fast Cycles and real-time Eevee)...there's a lot to like. MAXON beats it some ways, no doubt, but in many ways Blender smokes c4d. And the investment in learning c4d...a lot of it transfers right over to Blender.

 

The principal BSDF channels in Blender default materials are exactly the same as I use in C4d Octane.

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Blender lifting it’s game is probably good for the whole industry, so thoughtful comparisons between it and C4D like the ones you’re offering now are useful ICM, hopefully you can stick around and let us know how you go as you dig more deeply into it.

 

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6 hours ago, maxwellv said:

If you agree to Adobe's discounted, 1-yr contract you pay on a monthly basis—not one, lump sum. Not so with MAXON's Annual Subscription; where the price is displayed with a monthly figure ($59 [USD]).

 

This is why people are upset

 

Thanks for clarifying. Yes I agree with you on this. I don’t mind the yearly lock-in but having to pay upfront will still be difficult to do for a lot of people. I hope they reconsider this and allow to pay the yearly amount in monthly payments. Also an indie tier would be good to have as well.

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23 hours ago, maxwellv said:

If you agree to Adobe's discounted, 1-yr contract you pay on a monthly basis—not one, lump sum. Not so with MAXON's Annual Subscription; where the price is displayed with a monthly figure ($59 [USD]).

 

I just want to throw out a different perspective on this.

 

Here in New Zealand we have to purchase C4D through our local reseller. We don't have an online website. It is all done manually by a real person sitting in an office. With this in mind think about how their businesses run. By having the MSA (or the new billed yearly subscription) that means the reseller only has to process a single transaction once per year.

 

This means me emailing them, they contact MAXON to lock in the rate based on the current exchange rate, the reseller then emails me an invoice, I agree and make the payment, the following day they receive the cash in their account and confirm it via another email, a wire transfer is initiated to send the funds through to MAXON, this is received and the licence is then sent to the reseller, who then forwards me all the details.

 

Now this only happens once year. The reseller takes some % of that transaction. Lets say 10%. So of the new subcription the reseller gets $72 from that $720 amount. This is enough to pay the costs of the person doing the work in NZ. Likewise MAXONS costs are covered on their end by having a person managing things from their side. 

 

Now imagine this happens every month. At $60 that means the reseller only gets $6. And they have to do the same amount of work every month for every subscriber. Then on the MAXON side they also reduce their income.

 

So the way around that would be to increase the price to $100 per month (as a purely monthly subscription). This adds $40 to this to cover the cost on both sides. Perhaps now the reseller gets $30 per transaction and MAXON takes $10 to handle it on their end. So this would make sense and could be one of the reasons why they offer that purely monthly price as they have done along side the billed annually version. 

 

Those in Germany, US and UK all have online stores I believe, so this could be automated. I am not sure but maybe those stores are all independently operated as well according to each countries specific tax laws.  But keeping the entire operation consistent for now does make sense for this first transition. MAXON is not the same size as Adobe or Autodesk. They can't have a single online presence for selling software and handling International sales for these monthly subscriptions. Plus its actually nice that they use local resellers since that provides business to these countries. 

 

Now MAXON may be building something to handle this in future, I don't really know, but going by their Jobs page (https://www.MAXON.net/en/header-meta-navigation/about-MAXON/jobs/) they always seem to looking for people in ecommerce type rolls. Or potentially Nemetsheck could build a worldwide system and incorporated MAXON sales in there. Again I am just speculating, I don't know anything about it. But I would feel for the resellers if this was the case.

 

Anyway, that's just another perspective on how some of this may be working from a business case in countries like mine.

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43 minutes ago, kbar said:

Here in New Zealand we have to purchase C4D through our local reseller.  ...

 

This used to be the way how things were handled in most (if not all) European countries as well. From my understanding of the "3D for the whole world" this will stop with the release of R21. No local reseller, no local distributor. All via the one online shop or MyMaxon account.

I understood this would also apply to New Zealand and other parts of the world.

 

 

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