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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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I truely hope they keep offering perpetual licenses! I think that would be a smart move on MAXON’s part keel everyone happy. Although I’ve always felt the MSA and upgrade prices were too high for me. The original $650 for MSA was okay. But when they raised it to $725 me and others I know couldn’t understand that. Personally I think $500 for an upgrade to the newest version plus access to cineversity would be reasonable. Why else other than a jab in the ribs pushing you towards subscription would they take cineversity away. That seems crappy to me and lowers my respect for the company. But I love C4d. Along with Houdini these are my favorite tools. They both speak to me as other programs don’t. I’ve been playing with blender for a while now, and although it’s free and the blender institute is passionate and great at what they do I just really prefer C4d as a whole. Its personal taste. Like anything else, what kind of car you’re attracted to or what kind of food or music gets you pumped.

I want C4d to be my hub and sprinkle in Houdini indie when needed.

 

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Not sure if it was already mentioned here, and at this stage, it doesnt make much difference to people who already bought the update to R20 few months ago, etc...

But in my case, I own the R18 still....  and before, each upgrade, if you skipped one version, it would add up around 500-700 USD.
Example, Upgrading from R19 to R20 = Around 995 USD
From R18 to R20 = 1695 USD
And after speaking to a MAXON representative, he told me that there wont be any addition to the R21 upgrade.. the price will be the same as I would pay for the R20 upgrade, around 1600 USD. Which is kinda good I think...? 

But yeah, I am in the same boat as most of you... a bit unsure of the future with C4D.
I've been using it since 2008, so I am proficient with it... but these new subscription models, and how they are trying to push people for these new plans, are a bit worrying.. 

I've been trying Blender too, but it is not the same 😞 Not a great intuitive interface, and having the prompt each time I want to delete a single vertice come up.. is super annoying 😞

 

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Tomorrow my MSA is set to expire. So yeah tonight I will be tossing and turning trying to decide whether to upgrade or not. Aside from the unintuitive interface this is something blender users never have to stress over. My thinking is if I do upgrade to R21, at least I will have it in the 'My MAXON' thing and see if there will be a perpetual upgrade next year to R22 or just hold onto R21 for a bit and get a subscription a few years later. Not sure, the new licensing certainly raises my spider senses and my intuition tells me I won't be happy where this is all going. 

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If you have no problems with subscription you have no pressure. You can wait till a update looks really good and go supscription then. If you like c4d and prefer perpetual, I would consider to update. That gives you at least the posibility to look what comes and more time if you want to change.

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I was told a couple things by a MAXON rep that made me feel better about renewing my MSA.

1. Cineversity is still included

2. The current RedShift plugin still works with R21. So if you're like me and purchased RedShift for R20, its supposed to continue to work with R21. I thought this was good news.

 

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Now I'm confused.

My MSA renews in March. Do I have to renew now to get 21 or am I good to go as is?

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can offer.

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52 minutes ago, arail said:

Now I'm confused.

My MSA renews in March. Do I have to renew now to get 21 or am I good to go as is?

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can offer.

i think you will have to renew now... with now i mean today. to my knowledge last chance to renew your msa is end of august. after that there is no msa any more.

 

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You shouldn't have to renew to get R21 though.   You are good to go.  Any active MSA on the release date will get perpetual R21.  You won't be able to renew you MSA though in March. since new MSA's are dying tomorrow.  That's how I understood it.  

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On 8/29/2019 at 10:21 AM, FLima said:

I've been trying Blender too, but it is not the same 😞 Not a great intuitive interface, and having the prompt each time I want to delete a single vertice come up.. is super annoying 😞

 

That is easily resolved: select a vertex, hit the delete key, navigate to the Vertices entry, and right-mouse click that entry. Then assign your own custom shortcut key. I assigned backspace myself to quickly delete vertices.

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3 hours ago, stoecklem said:

You shouldn't have to renew to get R21 though.   You are good to go.  Any active MSA on the release date will get perpetual R21.  You won't be able to renew you MSA though in March. since new MSA's are dying tomorrow.  That's how I understood it.  

I hope you're right. That's how I read the situation.

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On 8/28/2019 at 2:08 AM, Fastbee said:

The following quote sounds like they might do just that, but they have not figured it out officially yet.  If would make me feel better if right next to the perpetual option was a upgrade price for perpetual users of which old studio users get a lower price than other users.  I guess we have to wait.  Seems like it would be easy, but there is a ton of market analysis that goes into that one $#.

 

From RBerrett bottom of page 54 of this convo.

"MAXON will offer perpetual upgrades, as it says in the FAQ.

 

I can't give you a specific answer at this point as to when those upgrades will be offered, what they will cost or what they will be called, because as it states in the FAQ those details aren't yet fully defined. We'll have more communication on that going forward, based on development progress and customer feedback.

 

As to how long perpetual upgrades will continue to be offered - we're taking our cues from the userbase on that. You seem to assume the fact that we haven't announced an end date is a signal they're ending, but it's more clearly a signal that they'll be continuing. It means we haven't predetermined a sunset date for perpetual - or even that there will be a sunset date. We're still selling perpetual licenses - they're right there next to the subscription option. The only comments otherwise are conjecture."

I do hope that they are still trying to sort out what the cost of perpetual upgrades are going to be because what I am hearing from MAXON USA representatives is that the cost of upgrading in the future will be as if your MSA program no longer existed. 

 

For example:  Prior to 9/1/2019, the cost of an MSA was $725 and with that your got the next version.  If you did NOT have an MSA, then the cost of upgrading to the next version has been $999.   From 9/1/2019 onward, MSA's no longer exist.  Therefore the cost to get the next upgrade will be $999.

 

This has been clearly stated over and over again, so I have to assume that is the current policy that MAXON would like to stick to unless there is significant push back from the user community.   In MAXON's mind, they are thinking "Well, if you want the same price then go with subscriptions".  Subscriptions hold the user captive and free MAXON from the consequences of not releasing new features per any schedule.  If you don't like the pace of development and stop paying the subscription price, then you can't use the program.  Imagine if MAXON decided NOT to release R22 until 2021.  Subscription users are essentially paying $1440 to keep using R21 over that 2 year period.  Perpetual license holders of R21 pay only $999 over that same period.  That is an extreme example, but you get the point...subscriptions free MAXON from the financial consequences of not delivering meaningful updates on a regular basis.   Subscriptions are NOT to your advantage...they are to MAXON's advantage.  Never forget that.

 

So MAXON wants people to go to subscriptions or pay a 53% cost increase in perpetual upgrades (from $650 to $999 in less than 2 years).  Either path is an advantage to MAXON....none to the user.  No matter what type of crappy "3D for the whole world" spin you want to put on it, you need to realize that this is their agenda.  It is an agenda that Nemetschek put in motion by forcing the founders out and hiring an Adobe transplant to execute.  Disregard EVERYTHING that any corporate shill from MAXON tells you....it is greed, plain and simple.  This is a different MAXON.

 

Well, there should be consequences to treating your user base this way and that is what MAXON is going to try an gauge over the next year.  What MAXON has yet to figure out is what will every MSA user who upgraded to R21 perpetual will do when R22 comes out when faced with a $999 cost to continue being a perpetual license holder.  Yeah, Prime MSA holders are dancing in the streets over getting R21 Studio for $250 today but what they have yet to realize is that their annual costs increase 400% to $999 if they want to keep using R22 perpetual.  Even if they decide on subscriptions, that is close to a 300% increase in their annual costs (and again close to 400% if you use Redshift). 

 

So again, if MAXON is still "taking their cues from the user-base" concerning perpetual upgrades, they are in fact wondering two things:

  1. "Will we get away with a massive price increase on perpetual license sales to pretty much everyone when R22 comes out?" 
  2. "Will  everyone instead move to subscriptions which gives us all the power in deciding how to release new features?"

So despite what everyone is talking about, the line in the sand is not today (9/1/2019) but rather whenever R22 is released.  That will be the big decision point for everyone because right now life is normal...we are all under the MSA program one last time and paying what we paid in the past.  The big decision point is next year and that is why MAXON is listening to us today.  So my hope is that a 61 page thread of rage over the "new" MAXON makes them realize that the users are NOT going to take this quietly.  I hope MAXON steps out of their echo chamber and listens to our disappointment in them as a company that we trusted for decades.  I hope they feel the silent pull that Blender R2.8 is having on us as users and drop their arrogance over the purity of their new core and recognize that Blender has some pretty good features that C4D does not have...and they have them for FREE!   The new Blender interface lowers the learning curve significantly so that just makes a decision to forego a future with MAXON that much easier.  I hope MAXON takes to heart that the Blender Organization gives us something that the MAXON organization is trying to take away: Freedom from incurring significant financial consequences when deciding how we want to use the program.

 

So if MAXON is truly listening, then let your voice be heard over the next year. 

 

Dave

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I hear you Dave.

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