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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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12 hours ago, RBarrett said:

 

Dear Rick,

Thank you for facing the wave of outrage.
But... I hope you've noticed that this whole simplification is just progress for MAXON, not for the existing users.
- MAXON only has one software version left to maintain, but Prime users now have to triple their payments.
- MAXON implements a new licensing system and can thus have better control over its customers (and only have to maintain one version). But customers can't be sure if MAXON won't shut down the license server for old versions.
- MAXON simplifies its accounting by abolishing the MSA. But from now on, at best, customers will have to pay more for an annual update (but there is no guarantee that it will continue to be offered).
- MAXON is euphoric because it hopes to get many new users. But, the existing users feel cheated and passed over. (by the way, many of those who make up this great community)

 

With all the answers posted here in the forum, I have the feeling that MAXON is confusing its own benefit with the benefit to the user. And this thread should be a sufficient sign that your userbase is not euphoric.

 

All the best
Jops

 

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15 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

What really get's people upset is the license manager for "perpetual licenses".  Do you really own something that can be shut off remotely?  If you don't think that is a problem for some people, give me your RFID codes for your remote car starter. 

 

The tripping point isn't subscription vs perpetual.  The tripping point is having a license manager for perpetual.  If that goes, you will preserve you user base.

 

Actually, considering I can start my car using my phone, I'm pretty sure Kia could decide to start or stop it if they wish.  But I have faith that Kia won't stop me from using my car because I'm not sure why they'd have any reason to stop it. 

 

I've got to say this one surprises me most. I understand that some organizations have to be offline for security reasons (and we have solutions for them), but I did not expect an issue with the MyMaxon activation. Online activation would likely have come about regardless of whether subscription was introduced - it's simply easier and more secure (for both us and you) than shuffling temporary and permanent serial numbers around. And we didn't just limit users to online activation, but actually added the feature of signing in and out to activate other machines on the fly. Even as someone who has always had access to as many serial numbers as I wanted and the system for mailing them out, it's so much nicer to simply sign in with a username and password on any computer and start using Cinema 4D. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RBarrett said:

 

Actually, considering I can start my car using my phone, I'm pretty sure Kia could decide to start or stop it if they wish.  But I have faith that Kia won't stop me from using my car because I'm not sure why they'd have any reason to stop it. 

 

I've got to say this one surprises me most. I understand that some organizations have to be offline for security reasons (and we have solutions for them), but I did not expect an issue with the MyMaxon activation. Online activation would likely have come about regardless of whether subscription was introduced - it's simply easier and more secure (for both us and you) than shuffling temporary and permanent serial numbers around. And we didn't just limit users to online activation, but actually added the feature of signing in and out to activate other machines on the fly. Even as someone who has always had access to as many serial numbers as I wanted and the system for mailing them out, it's so much nicer to simply sign in with a username and password on any computer and start using Cinema 4D. 

 

 

It's the same with all these online applications and calling home services: you can trust them or not.
No one guarantees you which data will be transmitted, which not. Which profiles will result.
Furthermore, the activation server must be reachable.
Be it I'm abroad and may have no way to go online or restrictions in the country prevent that.
Or the registration server at MAXON itself is not reachable.
There is no 100% guarantee for this - as some big names in the market (even Adobe) have already proven.
Can cost you a lot at the worst possible moment.
What else would happen if MAXON / Nemetschek (Adobe?) Did not exist one day ...?
I guess only a few had problems with serial numbers in the past and why should the activation server be safer for me?
For MAXON - Yes, of course, I can understand that.

Further to think about: MAXON can now simply turn off old versions as you like. Put the case - for whatever reason (WIN 10 problem for example) - I want to use an old (maybe even an very old) operating system. MAXON has raised the requirements for this. There is nothing left for me to do but change the operating system. Exactly because there are these rental models, I have a variety of OS versions (some virtual) to avoid exactly this problem.
With all due respect - I always feel that disadvantages are being sold to me as advantages.

Adobe Dejavues again and again.

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42 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

I've got to say this one surprises me most. 

 

Maybe because you underestimate how much trust MAXON lost.

People are still in the shock about Adobe. This arrogant way in which the company has overcome the concerns of its long-standing customers has left a deep mark.
And now MAXON is doing the same in the eyes of many. Even if you're certainly not the one to blame (you are here to answer questions).
But in my personal opinion, MAXON's lack of communication and willingness to compromise has not only lost a few customers. MAXON also lost much more trust than you imagine right now.
But shurely you can compensate it with a lot of new subscibers.

 

best regards

Jops

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23 minutes ago, Jops said:

 

Maybe because you underestimate how much trust MAXON lost.

 

 

+1

 

A big part of what made the C4D community great was it's respect and trust for MAXON. I feel we are nothing more than a subscriber # to them now. A company that is user-focused would not implement such heavy handed policies.

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On 8/10/2019 at 4:07 PM, everfresh said:

 

eerrmm... what??? :D why would there be less people able to operate it than before? that just doesn't make any sense at all. just like most of the rest of your post. what's a mesh creation core?

I'm talking about all the new users that they plan on bringing in - that's the whole point of 'whole world' - the base is what they have now. But they don't care about the base they are trying to get 3D into the hands of everyone. I hope that is clear.

 

Ha! Mesh Creation Core™ - I was typing with any editing - I was just talking about the code that deals with creating the geometry (no clue what MAXON terms it, or how many sub areas of code there are (i'm not a programmer) - this part of the software is still unpredictable once you go beyond simple, primitive objects. Hell, dealing with it right now where fill select or phong select can't even select very defined separate geometry. Have you ever tried ring select on complex models, looks like it just selects random polygons. This is not good code.

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3 minutes ago, renegade said:

I'm talking about all the new users that they plan on bringing in - that's the whole point of 'whole world' - the base is what they have now. But they don't care about the base they are trying to get 3D into the hands of everyone. I hope that is clear.

 

Ha! Mesh Creation Core™ - I was typing with any editing - I was just talking about the code that deals with creating the geometry (no clue what MAXON terms it, or how many sub areas of code there are (i'm not a programmer) - this part of the software is still unpredictable once you go beyond simple, primitive objects. Hell, dealing with it right now where fill select or phong select can't even select very defined separate geometry. Have you ever tried ring select on complex models, looks like it just selects random polygons. This is not good code.

ring selection works perfectly if you have a properly created mesh. on messy booles or converted cad data it just can not work, it doesn't work in any other program on this earth if the mesh isn't modelled properly. it is important to know when it's ok to use bools and when not. the how is also a big factor. taking a guess i think what you're really trying to say is that you want a feature like mesh fusion in modo or hard ops addon in blender. because creating meshes in c4d works just fine, the boole object is pretty basic in its functionality, but that's just how it is for now. but using booles isn't the only way to create meshes in c4d, i recommend to try proper modelling techniques first.

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40 minutes ago, everfresh said:

i think what you're really trying to say is that you want a feature like mesh fusion in modo or hard ops addon in blender

Yes, and we do deal with CAD files a lot, and do own a copy of Modo just to deal with making better models and CAD issues (Power Translators makes a better CAD model with less polygons than C4D). Irritates me to spend on all that extra software, but then we also have PTC Creo (not a favorite) We make some frightening meshes sometimes because we deal with complex human tissue (it is also a UV nightmare). And clients have crushing deadlines that we have to deal with. Speed is critical. If I had endless time I would make pristine meshes - but time for that doesn't always exist. In the end we will cheat it and know how to make it look great (but we'd like better more intelligent software to deal with cross sections, cutaways, etc. - and yes, we do use volume builder and I won't into it's issues with texturing). Also I'm hoping for a plugin called quad remesher for r20 while this 'whole world' licensing trainwreck keeps a' tumbling along.

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40 minutes ago, renegade said:

Yes, and we do deal with CAD files a lot, and do own a copy of Modo just to deal with making better models and CAD issues (Power Translators makes a better CAD model with less polygons than C4D). Irritates me to spend on all that extra software, but then we also have PTC Creo (not a favorite) We make some frightening meshes sometimes because we deal with complex human tissue (it is also a UV nightmare). And clients have crushing deadlines that we have to deal with. Speed is critical. If I had endless time I would make pristine meshes - but time for that doesn't always exist. In the end we will cheat it and know how to make it look great (but we'd like better more intelligent software to deal with cross sections, cutaways, etc. - and yes, we do use volume builder and I won't into it's issues with texturing). Also I'm hoping for a plugin called quad remesher for r20 while this 'whole world' licensing trainwreck keeps a' tumbling along.

seen this? only windows for now unfortunately....  produces quite similar results like instant meshes, which is also available for mac, but only as an external app, not a plugin.

 

regarding cad data: what i like about c4ds cad import is that it chews through pretty much everything you feed it, but i agree, the meshes get way too heavy. that's why i still prefer to convert cad meshes with MOI, and only go the c4d route if the data is too complex and MOI won't swallow it.

 

 

 

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Who’s in ‘shock’ about Adobe again? I have a sub, as do most of the people I know socially, and the sun somehow still manages to rise each morning. I trust their output way more these days than I did a decade ago btw. The regular updates are also accompanied by regular communication, both from them and from online trainers. It frankly feels like more of a community, going somewhere together with a supporter that has your back. It wouldn’t surprise me if MAXON expand or improve on communications as well.

 

I just remembered that Unity also has a subscription plan. For the many grads who are obsessed with making games, subs are the norm, and MAXON going this route will make total sense to them.

 

I remain excited rather than apprehensive.

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