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Maxon Subscribtion Plan Discussions

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My final thoughts before I exit this thread.

I'll renew my MSA for R21 (with a heavy heart).

But I have a strange feeling that they will release a major feature mid-cycle (possibly something that was held back from the original release) that will only be available to subscribers. A final stick to get you away from perpetual. We'll see.

 

In the meantime I'll attempt to progress with blender 2.8 throughout the year.

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1 hour ago, rfanoni said:

My final thoughts before I exit this thread.

I'll renew my MSA for R21 (with a heavy heart).

But I have a strange feeling that they will release a major feature mid-cycle (possibly something that was held back from the original release) that will only be available to subscribers. A final stick to get you away from perpetual. We'll see.

 

In the meantime I'll attempt to progress with blender 2.8 throughout the year.

 

C'mon now. No more heavy-heart posts. It's 3d and 3d is joy. Pick the tool best for you...Make your best choice...and enjoy your choice. 3d artistry is joy. We've all tasted it...like juicy fruit. No one can steal that from you.

 

No one can steal your joy. No one.

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On 8/11/2019 at 10:27 PM, Raischub said:

Thanks for that answer.

But going on with simplyfing the things: One Option will be the simplest at least.
Any knowledge about, if MAXON will offer these - headache preparing and complicated - Perpetaul Licenses beyond Version 21?
Will we see a Perpetual V22?
A Perpetual V23?

A Perpetual V24?

A Perpetual V25?

 

- Sometimes no answer is the answer -

Agree.

RICK, please clarify this one point that I think we still don't have a clear, unambiguous answer to.

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5 hours ago, SiXwork said:

Agree.

RICK, please clarify this one point that I think we still don't have a clear, unambiguous answer to.

(@ Rick & the Maxons: BtW: Please do not apply the sometimes aggressive tone to yourself. That does not apply to any of the employees I have met so far. Honestly, in the past, I have always considered MAXON to be one of the fairest, most helpful and best software manufacturers. I know that all these statements are often a bit unfair - but it's not against you. It is against efforts to change software licenses/industry against the will of users. It's not against you but what MAXON should reveal. It´s also clear, that none of the employees can speak against the dictates of the company. But, please keep in mind, that the new way Cinema is going - for which you are not responsible - is also aggresive to me and others. Thank you for your understanding)

 

Seen from a strategical/financial few:
When they tell us NOW, that there will never be a perpetual version 22 - most of those, who are on version 20 now and absolutely not willing to subscripe, wouldn´t invest in a perpetual version 21 or give money away for renewing their MSA.

(Adobe did it exactly the same way & all users of CS5.5 thought, that CS6 will be the last perpetual version to UPGRADE [not CONVERT]. As Adobe often reminded - but never promised or guaranteed. So they invested in that upgrade and were deeply disapointed).

And they need money, to  go through that period, when many will stay on V21. Waiting till the point, where they can´t live any longer with an outdated software. Cash Cow (CC) also wasn´t adapted by that many over the first years - Only 15% < of licenses were subscriptions within 2 yrs after they took the choice.

So keeping this point nebulous will help to get (the last) money of that guys, who are willing to have a perpetual or elsewise leave.

They can get money of both - That one who are willing to subscripe and also from that who are not.

Marketing blah can continue to claim: "What´s up? There still is (not: will be forever) a Perpetual?"

Why is there no official formulation like "We will continue to offer perpetual licenses in the comming years".

(Which would clearly be an argument for many of us. MAXON itself emphasized recently: "we are not rent only" - for me it was Maxons MAIN argument)

And then (maybe we will see a few subscription updates throughout the year)...
latest next year (and I bet there will be great features announced at that point)...

Marketing blah will change to: "After Subscriptions are adapted that well, we decided to go this way only." Followed by "Software for the Universe" - or what all these marketing guys are dreaming of.

The Perpetual Lovers will see a few (far better than now) Credits if they change their mind & Subscription will show Features we are long waiting for.

Every bet.

Seems the new CEO (which came from Adobe) is willing to copy the Adobe way.
No phantasy or not willing to make it better?

We are numbers not users?

 

Coming to the end:

Am I right: We will never see a Guaranty (not only nebulous statements) from MAXON, that we can BUY perpetual licenses in the future beyond V21?

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When users with last MSA contracts get only service packs/bugfixies without any updates/new functions, so there will be again 2 versions instead of single one. One for perpetuals, which contain bugfixies without new functions and second one, "up-to-date" version for subscribers...

 

As Rick said all that changes in licencies/MSA etc. have done because of simplicity of all things. Would be good to know, how many percent c4d user has more than one licence. More than half or just single one percent of all? We don´t know, but for me as single one licence user it was very clear and simple.

I got one email before my MSA ended with posibility to extend for next year (or two).

I sent mail back with yes, I want to continue in MSA, when it will be up to date, simply send me invoice. Maybe month later I got new mail with invoice, payed with internet banking, done...

It was simple...

 

Few years ago there was an option to buy 2year MSA, so I knew for next 3 years will nothing change for me. What we knows now?

...

 

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6 hours ago, SiXwork said:

Agree.

RICK, please clarify this one point that I think we still don't have a clear, unambiguous answer to.

@Rick

Maybe I can understand the Sound of Silence as an tip. Clearly you can´t talk against Companies dictates. So I take it like that.

 

@SiXwork

Maybe it´s interessting for you: I just find a comment about Cinemas new Subscription mode on the site of an GER-Software-Reseller. It´s " Software3d dot de" (No doubt if links are allowed here - exact source see bottom ). I hope they forgive me, if one of the MAXON Officials will read this here and they get trouble anyway - because the description they are giving about the new MAXON isn´t that good, when it comes to subscription. They doubt that there will be a future perpetual versions of Cinema (after Version 21). And beside that - they are also (like me ; ) of the opinion, that MAXON doesn´t fit into Nemetschecks Portfolio in the long run (They are mainly active in the field of Architecture & Construction). A takeover from Adobe isn´t that unlikely. The relations are build (not only by the CEO).

Their blog-comment in cutouts tranlated by Google (with no corrections - I fear Googles English is better than mine ; 😞

 

"Cinema4D and Adobe?
Maybe we can continue to speculate, what we had already suspected in 2013: in the end, CINEMA 4D not only fits well with Nemetschek, as a construction software specialist, but almost even better to Adobe. With the new CEO (ex-Adobe Manager), close relationships are foreseeable, and if Nemetschek pays off the profits, then another takeover may develop soon and the ring to enslave us will then be continued at Adobe."

 

"Brief summary of the new subscription license model:
- There is probably no longer a purchase version in the foreseeable future (our forecast, although currently still a R21 purchase license is offered)
- There are then probably sooner or later only rental models like Adobe or Autodesk - and if you do not pay, you have nothing left in your hands
- There are no more gradations between the favorable Prime or the specializations Broadcast, Visualize and Bodypaint but only all-or-nothing in the "Cinema4D - Always Online" (corresponds to the studio version)
- All existing MSAs are or have already been terminated (service contracts were the precursor to customer loyalty)
- Any existing MSA valid until at least September 2019 (no matter which version) will receive Cinema4D R21 (equivalent to Studio) as a permanent license
"

 

"In the first view, nothing can really be said against the model. For new users, the pricing policy is even very good and existing users are lured with price offers. Users who are in the MSA (service contract), it is already used to pay regularly get even in the best case from their small version (Prime, Broadcast or Visualize) a large studio with the new R21.
Our fears are more that customer loyalty is so high that you can no longer decide freely later, and then either the prices will rise or the development of new features will slow down. As we see it with other products, it is economically logical and most of our customers can do nothing with constantly new features from the studio version."

 

"Fact is current: Cinema4D is and remains an awesome 3D visualization program and has a strong user base. The pricing model is very good for new customers, but we see more of the economic goals and that is exactly what MAXON could hide so far. We may see in a few years whether the program's creative DNA will suffer."

 

"CINEMA 4D - RENT OR BUY?!
Since 2013 we regularly have calls in the office, if you can get Photoshop CS6 anywhere"

 

"In any case, we are convinced that there is still a unique opportunity to buy a CINEMA4D license cost-effectively and permanently, without ending up in the circle of permanent debt."

 

"The danger is that the user is completely forgotten. Because if, as a stock corporation, I'm only profit-oriented, and my customers are tightly bound by toggling contracts, how much will I spend on further developing new features? We already have a lot of experience as retailers that our customers (from all shifts and user classes) do not need a new version every year, because the new features may bring some performance or solve special cases, but our customers and most CINEMA4D Users are not the film studios in Hollywood, but down-to-earth artists who use CINEMA4D as a basic hand tool to make small and medium visualizations as daily bread. Many can easily skip multiple versions without missing anything."

 

German only:
Software3d dot de > CINEMA 4D > Cinema4D – Ein neuer Weg zum Einheitsbrei. Mieten oder Kaufen, Adobe Cloud macht es vor.

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A not so amusing coincidence on this issue. I have x-particles, which uses an online licensing scheme. Yesterday was starting up C4D and x-particles wouldn't load - came back with a "not connected to internet" - though I was connected in this case. I kept trying and it said the same thing, not connected. Meanwhile all network connections worked. Still is a dead plugin today. Not sure if it will fix itself or some other thing is going on

 

Luckily I didn't need x-particles for the job I'm on. But if I was on a deadline and this nonsense occurred we would be in serious trouble - can't tell the client, gee, can't work on your job because of some glitch in the MAXON server.

 

I just thought how NOT funny this was. A reason I hate subscriptions - and a real world reminder that these problems do occur. But the 'whole world' will be happy! (can't stand that puerile tagline)

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5 hours ago, SiXwork said:

Agree.

RICK, please clarify this one point that I think we still don't have a clear, unambiguous answer to.

Any knowledge about, if MAXON will offer these Perpetaul Licenses beyond Version 21?

 

MAXON will offer perpetual upgrades, as it says in the FAQ.

 

I can't give you a specific answer at this point as to when those upgrades will be offered, what they will cost or what they will be called, because as it states in the FAQ those details aren't yet fully defined. We'll have more communication on that going forward, based on development progress and customer feedback.

 

As to how long perpetual upgrades will continue to be offered - we're taking our cues from the userbase on that. You seem to assume the fact that we haven't announced an end date is a signal they're ending, but it's more clearly a signal that they'll be continuing. It means we haven't predetermined a sunset date for perpetual - or even that there will be a sunset date. We're still selling perpetual licenses - they're right there next to the subscription option. The only comments otherwise are conjecture.

 

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25 minutes ago, renegade said:

But if I was on a deadline and this nonsense occurred we would be in serious trouble - can't tell the client, gee, can't work on your job because of some glitch in the MAXON server.

 

I just thought how NOT funny this was. A reason I hate subscriptions - and a real world reminder that these problems do occur. But the 'whole world' will be happy! (can't stand that puerile tagline)

 

We know how important it is that you always have access to Cinema 4D, and we've been careful to select solutions that we (and you) can rely on for both service and security.

 

Is it the 'whole world' part you object to, or the 'real world' part? Honestly the 'whole world' was an easy tweak to highlight the changes in pricing and our efforts to make 3D more affordable and accessible. The concept of '3D for the Real World' is - as Dave explained in his keynote - much more than a tagline. It really is the way we think about our products and the guiding principle behind our approach to the market. Dave shared several aspects of this in his keynote, and soon we'll be expanding more on this concept and providing a bit more detail on the various ways '3D for the Real World' influences our strategy and decisions.

 

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1 hour ago, Raischub said:

I just find a comment about Cinemas new Subscription mode on the site of an GER-Software-Reseller. It´s " Software3d dot de"

 

I wouldn't put much credence into any of that. It's pure speculation and many things they say are simply not true.

 

I've had the pleasure of being part of MAXON for 20 years, and as I said repeatedly I've never worked harder and never been more satisfied with my work. As a team, we're more focused than ever on delivering incredible power and value to our users. We've had a few folks leave - which is natural in any organization especially when there's a change in leadership, but most of us 'old-timers' (including the founding programmers) are not just still around, but a key part of both daily and strategic decisions.

 

We have a great relationship with Nemetschek, and they love having us as part of their portfolio. I'm sure they have a real passion for architecture and the stuff they do - but imagine you had to sit around all day listening to people talk about BIM and the structural integrity of bridges and somebody showed up to talk about how the end credits for Into the Spiderverse were created. We're an exciting company to have around - not because of our product - but because of what you all do with our product. And Nemetschek - like us - want to continue to give you the best tools possible to create. That's evident in the support they gave us in acquiring Redshift earlier this year.

 

One thing I will say is as a company we're taking really big bites - completing our first acquisition and putting together this subscription plan are just the obvious ones - but there's been lots of good stuff happening behind the scenes as well. We've all been really busy, and I know I haven't had as much time this year as I'd like to connect with users. I know I'll be making more efforts to do that in the second half of the year.

 

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