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foxtuon

Adding surface detail problem

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Greetings fellow C4D Cafe Gurus,


So I just scanned this one, and I've spent unhealthy amount of time watching tutorials to retopo the scan and create some clean-ish model. this is literally my second modeling attempt after the fork tutorial (probably every beginner did start with). I know I skipped a boatload of lessons and tools to learn and here I hit the wall of my ignorance and stubbornness.

I can't figure out how to add the surface engravings to the mesh I retopo-ed, I tried spline>loft> then boole, but it won't give me a proper result.
Thought of sculpting, but was wondering if I can make the sculpt brush follow the splines I projected on the surface to get a more precise detail!
Or maybe Cloth > bulge but have the splines to block it to create the look without loosing actual shape? I don't know how to do this though, I just played with the cloth tag today.

I would appreciate any guidance. thanks in advance.

screen_1.jpg

screen_2.jpg

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Hello, and welcome.

 

Ideally, you should have included the shapes within the retopo, this is the best way to make best use of retopo.  To sculpt along a spline you need to activate the snapping tools from the bottom the left of the UI and make sure Spine Snap is on.  Your going to need a faily high level of sculpting Sub divisions to get it clean.  Your also need a decent UV map on the model to make a displacement or normal map.  Doing it this way will loose you the full flexibility of selection sets for multiple material groups.  If it was me Id do retopo again.

 

 

 

Dan

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Yep - what he said. You need an edge flow that includes those forms. What you have now may be all quads and regular, so some points for that, but that is not the topology or edge flow you need to describe this surface because it doesn't take into account any of the secondary forms, upon which the whole mesh should be based, from the ground up ideally...

 

To be honest, if the only thing you have modelled before is a fork (which might be considered a month 1 project, a trainer like this is sort of a Year 2 project, so you have made a massive leap in ambition and skill level required. With some effort sculpting could save this, but if you are trying to improve your poly modelling skills, I'd forget booles, sculpting, cloth, or splines, and just do your retopo again so that you incorporate those forms and still keep everything regular quads at the lowest resolution you can get away with, which isn't very low, given the complexity of the pattern...

 

Poly Pen will do this fastest for you. Also make sure you are using symmetry if that is an option - no need to be doing more work than you have to...

 

Top Tip: Once you have laid out some polys, the sculpt tools (which work on regular poly objects too) can be very helpful, specially the Grab Tool, if you use FX Modifiers to add a little smoothing into the tool, which will help keep you regular as you shift things about in a way that no other tool in Cinema can...

 

Lastly, the HB modelling bundle would make this easier still, with its dedicated retopo setup and reprojection options...

 

CBR

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I'd say your initial poly density should be something in the region of this sort of thing...

 

1469632640_retopotrainer2.thumb.jpg.b95b077fa955803a8af8973e0696a785.jpg

 

CBR

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if you don't feel like redoing retopo wit details i would say  sculpting could save you but you will probably be finished with big polycount witch could be oke if you are not planning to do massive animations on top of it. 

 

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4 minutes ago, adambelis said:

if you don't feel like redoing retopo wit details i would say  sculpting could save you but you will probably be finished with big polycount witch could be oke if you are not planning to do massive animations on top of it. 

 

He could bake out a displacement, Normal Map.  The Knife tool will do what he wants with the splines.

 

Dan

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  • Thanks folks for the amazing insights, I'm definitely going to retopo it again with Cerbera's attached example in mind. I really never did model before, I maybe did circle+spline loft sort of thing before then give up, but now I love the challenge. I probably watch 3 hours of tutorials everyday after work, better use those grey cells before it's too late.
    Before reading your replies, I ventured with proximal shader as a displacement, but it is so unreliable and slow, plus the engravings  aren't equal.


    I will probably have to research Edge Flow before attempting retopop it again. Oh and by the way I have purchased HB modeling bundle. Amazing!

     

    Will send WIP once I get back home and work on this baby again :) Thank you so much everyone!

     

    Matt

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  • Okay, so I ended up with this, I tried to pay more attention to the flow more than having always perfect quads, ended up with a couple of triangles. I know if I slow down a bit and plan it better I can get something cleaner. 
    I have no clue how to manipulate the symmetry axis center, since I'm working on the coordinates of the scanned model because I will send it back to re-project the color map after I create a proper UV map.
    I might try the mirror script in HB bundle, before committing to the second half.

    back at it tomorrow. Thanks a lot everyone :) I really appreciate it .

     

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    On 7/24/2019 at 6:52 AM, foxtuon said:

    Okay, so I ended up with this, I tried to pay more attention to the flow more than having always perfect quads, ended up with a couple of triangles.

    That is not bad a for a first attempt, but you might do a lot better on the second go round. There should be zero triangles in this model - not only because it is generally bad modelling form, but because on curved organic surfaces like this it will actually result in deformation and unsightly lumps in your SDS model. If you are not using subdivision, or surfaces are flat then we can chill out if the odd tri remains, but on this sort of model you actually do need the all-quads, and if you are aiming to become a decent modeller overall the main skill involved in that is being able to solve any mesh to 100% quads, so it's important you keep trying until you can.

     

    We also have to remember that what SDS likes most of all is even distribution of polygons, and there are several areas on your model so far that are much more dense than others, which may also lead to problems later down the line...

     

    On 7/24/2019 at 6:52 AM, foxtuon said:

    I have no clue how to manipulate the symmetry axis center

    Once you have established half your new model, hide the original scan, then just select (what will be) the centreline edge loop of your retopo mesh and make sure it is zero-scaled on the symmetry axis. Do this via the coordinates manager.

     

    Then go to Object Mode, and get the Axis Centre toolbox. Use that to place the axis at the right side of your model along what will be the symmetry line. Now move the whole model (and the scanned original) to 0,0,0 (World Centre) and pop your mesh under regular Symmetry, and that should all work...

     

    Other things to note:

     

    1. Make sure your polygons have their normals correct across the model. Check in Poly mode by selecting all of them, and going round checking all polys are orange on the outside. If there are any blue ones facing outwards then you need to Align normals across the whole mesh.

     

    2. Once you have finished with retopo stuff don't forget to re-apply a phong tag to your mesh so that it goes back to its smoothed, non-faceted appearance...

    (The HB retopo stage removes this tag so you can see faceting while you build, which is helpful)

     

    Hope that helps

     

    CBR

     

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  • CBR, fantastic solution for the Symmetry. I love how it looks, even though there is ton of little things to fix. I did retopo it again to get all quads. I loved how the loops came out, helped with SDS edges to sharpen the embossed details.

    THANK YOU :)

     

    Matt

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