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bezo

Cinema4D R21 features

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16 hours ago, Fastbee said:

The updates seem really great.  Not sure if they listened or had it as their own idea, but that new bevel tool is exactly what I suggested.  Again they listened and improved the character animation.  That timeline had no reason to be so slow when scaling before.

 

Bad news is C4D is still developing way too slow.  C4D needs to develop at about 15x the rate of this current update for the next 5 years in order to surpass the free Blender competition to the point where people might pay for it again.  This is to account for the speed at which Blender and other apps are developing, plus how much catch up C4D needs to do, plus how much better C4D needs to be than the competition in order to win back, or get new users.

 

I'm sad prorender had development time wasted on it.  Prorender is so slow.  MAXON also owns Redshift.  There is no excuse to waste time on a vastly inferior product.

 

$25 a month for redshift on top of C4D is too much.

 

My speculation on why they switched C4D to subscription is to make the Creative Cloud seem like a great deal when Adobe comes out as owning C4D.

 

Has the C4D community really become so small that no one really cares about R21?

With this being posted yesterday I'd expect this post to be pages long.

The blender forums go crazy in new posts everyday there are so many users.

 

Thank you Bezo for all the work on outlining the new features.

It is by all records one of the weakest releases. There are nice additions but as you pointed out, these improvements are  scarce. There are so many wide open gaps in the program that it’s hard to stay positive when the biggest feature that amazon put forth is bevels ans caps. 

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18 hours ago, Fastbee said:

Has the C4D community really become so small that no one really cares about R21?

With this being posted yesterday I'd expect this post to be pages long.

 

R21 is not even on the market, so what could we say?

 

There is no shiny new feature to gush about in advance. Doesn't mean it's a bad release; I do appreciate that the developers take care of technical debt and do bugfix and expansion things. But before I can go and comment on the quality, I'd rather play with the actual thing.

 

The speedup of the timeline is promising, though.

 

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i wouldn't even say that there's no shiny feature. i find the field force rather shiny. you can do a lot of things now with standard particles that you needed xparticles for before. also you can art direct cloth and dynamics much more than you could before.

 

ok, that's about the only feature you could call shiny, almost all other features are not really a blockbuster, but real time savers that make working with c4d much more efficient. and i'm really happy the devs spent their time in working on making existing things better instead of going for entirely new features. there's much more value for professionals in having a much faster timeline performance, being able to simply copy&paste polys, having superb auto-weights at hand (the list goes on...) than having another shiny xy feature you play with once because it's cool but maybe just have use for once or twice a year.

 

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8 minutes ago, everfresh said:

i wouldn't even say that there's no shiny feature. i find the field force rather shiny. you can do a lot of things now with standard particles that you needed xparticles for before. also you can art direct cloth and dynamics much more than you could before.

 

ok, that's about the only feature you could call shiny, almost all other features are not really a blockbuster, but real time savers that make working with c4d much more efficient. and i'm really happy the devs spent their time in working on making existing things better instead of going for entirely new features. there's much more value for professionals in having a much faster timeline performance, being able to simply copy&paste polys, having superb auto-weights at hand (the list goes on...) than having another shiny xy feature you play with once because it's cool but maybe just have use for once or twice a year.

 

 

But copy paste polygons and welded caps are updates of existing stuff, not new fatures. And while field force is great, you better spent £ 540 on xparticles with a lot of features like fluids, smoke, grains, cloth, dynamics and xp flowfield than £ 3567 perpetual on C4D with field force + minor stuff, or £ 732 sub a year.

 

for the record xpflowfield >= fieldforce, so I prefer money saver than realtime saver, especially since xparticles is so much bigger than flowfield, cost £ 192 less a year and a third of that the next year ( xparticles maintenance: £230.00 , cinema on the other hand is still £ 732 every year)

 

So, not only cinema 4d is competing against Maya, Houdini, or free Blender is also competing against its own plugin, and I dont want to sound rude, but eveyone who thinks is saving money buying C4D R21 , instead of keeping forever R20 + xparticles,  is shooting itself in the foot and the wallet at the same time.

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11 hours ago, Frokito said:

Blender is only getting better. People right now are creating new features like particle- and muscle system. I'm curious to see how the 3d market will look like in a couple of years.

 

In a couple of years Houdini, Maya, Max, and hopefully C4D wont be sleeping without new features while Blender adds everything nodes in 2.83, plus you dont know how fast will it be, what features will it support, how easy or hard to master the new particle system will become. So much unanswered questions.

 

You need to compare the present, not the unwritten future.

 

 

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if i'm only saving 5 hours time on modelling and 5 hours in animation and 10 in weighting per year that's already 1200€.  so who's shooting themselves in the foot? fields on the other hand for instance while it is a great feature didn't save me any time, on the contrary, i spent a great deal of time to figure it out and be as fast and efficient with it like i am with the old falloff system. in the future it will also save me some time i guess though, so that's hours well spent.

 

and i'm also an xp user, so i'm not thaaat excited about force fields if i'm being honest, but for people that don't have xp it's a very welcome addition i guess...

 

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Just now, everfresh said:

if i'm only saving 5 hours time on modelling and 5 hours in animation and 10 in weighting per year that's already 1200€.  so who's shooting themselves in the foot? fields on the other hand for instance while it is a great feature didn't save me any time, on the contrary, i spent a great deal of time to figure it out and be as fast and efficient with it like i am with the old falloff system. in the future it will also save me some time i guess though, so that's hours well spent.

 

and i'm also an xp user, so i'm not thaaat excited about force fields if i'm being honest, but for people that don't have xp it's a very welcome addition i guess...

 

 

If modeling in C4D were faster than other packages,  Holger Biebrach wouldnt be selling HB modeling toolkit with at least 80 scripts to improve the amount of clicks one has to do in C4D for basic stuff. Plus, our UV tools, plain suck so that's one big feature we still don't have, how much time would you save there?

 

For me, Blender is faster for modeling than C4D (because for some odd reason, C4D solo mode doesnt work all the time, align normal is accessible only through SRT tools, subdivide requires to turn off, cut loops, turn on, test, and a plethora of reasons that I just find annoying and time consuming in C4D). I can then export any obj I create with UVs into C4D to work with RS + XP.

 

You can give it a try with 2.8 to see if that worflow clicks with you.

 

But, how is a welcome addition something you said yourself wont use often? How on earth can we keep supporting these odd decisions by MAXON? Is it because we create tutorials for C4D? or beta test stuff for them, than we have stopped complaining and defend these decisions? ---- and im not talking about subs, im talking about adding features no one was asking for, where basic features are still missing, like the mentioned UV tools that we have been asking MAXON for almost a decade or more.

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2 minutes ago, luchifer said:

 

If modeling in C4D were faster than other packages,  Holger Biebrach wouldnt be selling HB modeling toolkit with at least 80 scripts to improve the amount of clicks one has to do in C4D for basic stuff. Plus, our UV tools, plain suck so that's one big feature we still don't have, how much time would you save there?

 

For me, Blender is faster for modeling than C4D (because for some odd reason, C4D solo mode doesnt work all the time, align normal is accessible only through SRT tools, subdivide requires to turn off, cut loops, turn on, test, and a plethora of reasons that I just find annoying and time consuming in C4D). I can then export any obj I create with UVs into C4D to work with RS + XP.

 

You can give it a try with 2.8 to see if that worflow clicks with you.

 

But, how is a welcome addition something you said yourself wont use often? How on earth can we keep supporting these odd decisions by MAXON? Is it because we create tutorials for C4D? or beta test stuff for them, than we have stopped complaining and defend these decisions? ---- and im not talking about subs, im talking about adding features no one was asking for, where basic features are still missing, like the mentioned UV tools that we have been asking MAXON for almost a decade or more.

i wasn't arguing about if there's anything missing or if things could be done better. hell, i miss a lot of things, and i am complaining a lot!

 

my point was merely that i welcome these little fixes more than most of the features no one was complaining about in releases before. because they save more time in daily work than any of these fancy features. that is all. 

 

do i want a proper global symmetry system? sure i do. do i want excellent UV tools? hell yes. would i like a 3x faster viewport? who would not want it?

 

and yet for me personally this release is more attractive than r20 was, what can i say? no one has to agree on this, it's just my personal view. if you're not an animator or rigger or modeller this release probably sucks balls, i can understand that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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tbh i found that spin of the claim quite cheesy to begin with. while i find it a good move in general to offer additional subscription models and lower the buy in price for perpetual, i would have welcomed it very much if they would have kept the MSA model untouched. or offer a "rent to own" model. i also voiced my opinion in favour of an indie license, like houdini offers for instance. also i find they should have included redshift for free for any c4d customer.

 

all those things would have been good for maxons reputation i believe, and i think it would have resulted in more revenue if you look at the long term effects something like this has on a company. and yet they chose to act otherwise. i'm not defending their actions on that front. although some of the reactions seem a little bit overly dramatic to me, i can understand that people are upset.

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As much as I like C4D as it's the only and first 3D app I know, sure I will give Blender a shoot.

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Well...I read all this, eating popcorn (of course just kiddin')... I think this is the way all the industry is heading not that groundbreaking updates...see Nuke - not that new stuff, you have to pay for maintenance...bug fixing...Autodesk's products....also not that much happening. Maybe the only 3D program with a lot of happening is Blender, it has some new energy. I think Cinema also need some new energy...

 

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