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M G

Should I use Mospline for this?

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Hello All,

I've posted a few times regarding a spline growth animation that I'm trying to do. Thanks to help from the forum, I was able to do it how I envisioned (random motion) by using Xpresso controllers and rigging it as needed. Unfortunately, this was the wrong direction. I'm a bit new to C4D (but not to 3D animation) so most of my questions are here because I'm not super familiar with the tools at my disposal.

The following animation has been referenced between 00:35 and 01:20. They're looking for an animated spline with a predictable wave motion that can grow a specific distance as a straight line (while displacing another spline) (00:35-00:45), and be 'detached' and 'reattached'  (going back and forth) with the wave motion when detached and a straight line reattached (00:47-01:20). All of the color segments also need to be a fixed length.

 

It was suggested before by the forum to use Mospline, and because of the requested predictable wave movement and the fixed length I think this might be the route. But I do have a few questions if I can get some help in pointing me in the right direction...

First, is Mospline the way to go or is there a better option?

 

If I do use Mospline, should this be as a single spline that grows, or as multiple splines that are stacked/attached to each other (see question below)?

 

For the wave or s-curve motion, can this be applied in areas of a spline, so that part of the curve is straight while the rest of the curve has motion (this is in relation to the question above, can the spline be in individually controllable sections or should it be multiple splines attached to look like a single spline)? 

 

For the attach/detach displacement, is there an effect that can be used instead of keyframing something like this, I'm assuming there is I just don't know what option can create such an effect.  

If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it. I'm just looking to be pointed in a direction (basic structure/effects I can use) so I can build this. As I mentioned before I'm still unfamiliar with many of the capabilities in C4D, but have learned a lot with the help of the forum. Thank you for all the help you've given, and any suggestions are more than welcome.

Many thanks!

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TBH, when I first saw your reference my initial thoughts were - that's 2D - why are we trying to do this in a 3D program at all ?! I'm not saying we can't, but it might be a damn sight harder than putting it together in a 2D animation app !

 

The only use for moSpline I can see being helpful in making that animation would be to enable you to grow custom splines, something which may not be necessary anyway, because you can use sweeps and other 3D methods to grow actual renderable geometry  on that would serve just as well or better. I can't see how any other property of MoSpline could help produce that animation, but perhaps others can...

 

The main reason that I think Cinema is generally unsuitable for this is that the reference includes so many splines that begin separately, but then join seamlessly to other ones, which is fundamentally opposed to the way that splines work in Cinema.

 

You could possibly circumvent that issue in R20 with the Volume Builder, but of course you don't have that in R19. In that version, splines can be joined via metaballs, but it's not very efficient, and you'd have almost zero control of topology.

 

CBR

 

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  • Thank you Cerbera for your input. I totally agree that it's a waste of 3D but this is what I'm tasked with...

    I was thinking of making each color a separate spline, then aligning/attaching them end to end to make them appear and behave as a single spline. Might this be a way to go? Is there a way to do this while maintaining curvature continuity?

     

    I was thinking I might also need to just do this with alphas and fake things....

    All input and ideas are welcome!!

    Thanks!

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    30 minutes ago, M G said:

    I was thinking of making each color a separate spline, then aligning/attaching them end to end to make them appear and behave as a single spline. Might this be a way to go? Is there a way to do this while maintaining curvature continuity?

     

    That could work if you used exclusively luminant or hair materials so that the joins weren't made visible by external lighting etc.

     

    1. You can split a spline, and maintain the curvature...

     

    splinesplit.thumb.jpg.c69ef6e1b6f7e84331e6eb4605fb875c.jpg

     

    I did this via the Split Command, but when you delete the split points from the original spline you just need to take the point where they join out of the selection you will delete or you will lose the end segment.

     

    2. You can render these splines in a few different ways. Here I used 2 Hair materials but had to make quite  alot of adjustments to them (particularly under illumination tab) to get them to be truly luminant and consistent along their lengths.

     

    splineHair.thumb.jpg.b5588c3fa5e12c0334494325f9f1e84c.jpg

     

    The difficulty remains in how to animate these, it seems (to me at least) unlikely that you can do so without recourse to manual point level animation and a rather complex multi-spline setup...

     

    Furthermore, making 2 splines seamlessly or procedurally animate after 'joining' is a whole nest of vipers I can't see how you can easily avoid...

     

    CBR

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  • Thanks Cerbera for this out-of-box thinking, I'm going to have to play with this and see if I can understand what you're doing and if it'll work.

     

    I was thinking of possibly setting up a dummy object (invisible cube) on the end of a spline and have a second spline attached and aligned tangent to the cube. Not even sure if this is possible...

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    Just thinking out lead here and suggesting things that are a bit above my skill level, but it may open up a few ideas, this again would be ok for flat colour Luminant material as CBR said or plain alphas as you mentioned yourself.

     

    When I look at parts of it i can see maybe using clones and a tracer for the long splines, manipulated by effectors and their falloffs to create the wave. maybe even some dynamic triggered by an invisible collision to the clones at the ends to drop them down, but that could be a bit uncontrollable.

     

    The short splines, could be dynamic, with the top point fixed, the tricky part is where it breaks away from the long spline and has that slight delay, i wonder if it would be possible to have an attractor in the lower long spline at each clone point, which when moved away would release the bottom of the short spline and let it swing.

     

    The bit where the two spline ends fall down together also has a bit of the feel of spline ik about it.

     

    One would have thought the formula effector would make a nice job of the wave, Im not clever enough to make the wavelength shorter but I have put an example below, also with a shader effector but again I wasn't smart enough to animate that one.

     

    Cinevercity have some scripts for making splines dynamic in a hurry so that could help setting up the short splines.

     

    Maybe some of the other more experienced members might elaborate. Don't think I could get it all working together but maybe in enough pieces to do something in AE

     

    Deck

    Tracers splines 01.c4d

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  • Thank you Deck,

     

    All help is welcome! I think I'm in the same boat as you, seemingly above my skill level. Your approach was similar to how I was thinking originally, thank you for the sample file. 

     

    I was thinking of using an Effector as you did, but am struggling with how to change parameters. More specifically, how to get multiple waves across the length of a spline instead of just a single. I understand controlling the size and speed but not the number of waves...

     

    Thanks for the help!

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  • ok, just figured that in the formula for the effector, if you do 'count*(variable)' in the formula the number of waves increases. (variable) should be a number in this case, ie (id/count*4)

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    Thats interesting, I tried some numbers other than 4 thinking it would just get shorter ( Im more than at math ) but it only works with 2,4,8 etc and gets weirdly wobbly with other numbers and totally flat at 16. Works quite well with the falloff tho.

     

    In the file below if you turn on the cube collider and turn off the formula you can see the effect of the tracer following the falling clones, but unfortunately won't work with the formula, which again just complicates things.

     

    Deck

     

    61888712_ScreenShot2019-08-05at11_14_39.png.7946f5a69084674b9a93564559cff1ef.png

    Tracers splines 02.c4d

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    Seems I wasn't quite right about going flat at 16, that was the case with only 16 points but as you up the points the wobble disappears but it also doesn't go flat until you insert a number equal to the amount of clones, then the different numbers seem to have an effect, if you put in 50% in the equation it seems to just move up and down whereas other numbers give it that apparent flow along the spline.

     

    Deck

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    You want to use MoSpline since you can combine forces and effectors. Here is a quick example :)

     

     

    primer.c4d


    Free C4D trainings from MAXON professional on our youtube channel

     

    https://www.youtube.com/c4dcafe

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    hi hrvoje

    your file didnt work in my r18 but i got the gist of what you said and did this example with a little turbulence to wiggle the end.

    I also looked at a spline wrap option but that was a bit of a nightmare to set up.

     

    Deck

     

     

    Screen Shot 2019-08-05 at 13.38.35.png

    Tracers splines 04.c4d

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