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3D-Pangel

What would drive you to subscriptions?

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4 minutes ago, Rectro said:

This I assume will only happen if a user has 2 or more people working on the same project at the same time as he would be paying his yearly upgrade for his perpetual licence, plus subscription, I cant see any other reason why anyone would rent if they already own a perpetual licence.  

 

Correct - during the R21 cycle, customers may want to add a subscription to ramp up additional users. When later releases become available they may choose to add a subscription for access to those releases rather than upgrade the perpetual license (and indeed, some features will become available first to subscribers). Again, as long as they 'add' a subscription rather than 'convert' they'll retain the perpetual R21 even after the subscription ends.

 

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10 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Correct - during the R21 cycle, customers may want to add a subscription to ramp up additional users. When later releases become available they may choose to add a subscription for access to those releases rather than upgrade the perpetual license (and indeed, some features will become available first to subscribers). Again, as long as they 'add' a subscription rather than 'convert' they'll retain the perpetual R21 even after the subscription ends.

 

This makes total sense and for this reason I can see how subscription is an advantage, more so for short term projects.

 

I hit the submit  button before I had finished writing the full reply above.  The additional part simply was to try to understand in what scenario would converting a perpetual licence for rental when the discount works out significant lower than what it would be to just selling his.her licence?  Would a 3k piece of software really devalue that much that a user would get less selling it  than the discount offered for them two years?

 

Dan

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Posted (edited)

I would be more inclined to subscribe to C4D if:

1. The monthly $60. fee would drop to $50. (or less) and be billed monthly (like Adobe CC, which I do subscribe to). I actually figured that because all non-Studio editions were eliminated, the cost savings would allow you to sell C4D for less than $3,000.

2. Either rent to own or a similar scheme that would allow you to end a subscription and pay off the balance and leave with a perpetual license.

3. An indie/freelancer price. Large design firms and studios have much bigger software budgets than the freelancer does. This should be taken into account.

Edited by Silvercity
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  • 3 hours ago, RBarrett said:

     

    I've answered that and many other questions directly. Honestly a big part of the problem is we've got multiple threads (including this new one) going on multiple forums, and I can't even find the answers I know I've posted anymore because there's over 1000 posts spread out all over the internet.

     

    If Little Johnny has a perpetual R21 and later signs up for the 12 month subscription plan, he'll see two licenses in his MyMaxon account - an R21 perpetual license with 'unlimited' as the end date and a subscription entitlement with a specific end date. Both licenses can be used - so effectively two machines can be activated at the same time. When the subscription ends, the R21 perpetual will still be there.

     

    If Little Johnny has an active MSA and takes advantage of the discounted 2-year offer to convert to subscription, his perpetual license will no longer appear in his MyMaxon account. He'll be able to use Cinema 4D for as long as he maintains his subscription. If at some point the subscription ends, he'll lose access to Cinema 4D. The perpetual won't be restored.

     

    I've asked, and the updated EULA is supposed to go up on the website soon.

     

    - Rick

     

     

     

     

    Rick,

     

    Thank you...so it is conversion from perpetual to subscription via the 20% discount that kills perpetual.    That is where my confusion lies. 

     

    So if I purchase an R21 perpetual this year, then I should NOT take advantage of the 20% discount for two years next year if I want to keep my perpetual license alive.   Correct?

     

    If I decide in one year to follow the subscription plan, then I sign up for a subscription for R22 (do NOT take the discount) and I will have two licenses in the MyAccount system:

     

    1) one for R21 perpetual

    2) one for R22 subscription.

     

    So is it correct to assume that only taking the discount to convert from perpetual to subscription that puts perpetual at risk of deactivation.  Are there any other risks to perpetual that I need to be aware of (short on you not offering them anymore).

     

    Thanks again,

    Dave

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    For those who may choose R21 as their final license, does that mean MAXON will provide license verification server access indefinitely (unlimited)?

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    3 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    So if I purchase an R21 perpetual this year, then I should NOT take advantage of the 20% discount for two years next year if I want to keep my perpetual license alive.   Correct?

     

    Correct.

     

    3 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    So is it correct to assume that only taking the discount to convert from perpetual to subscription that puts perpetual at risk of deactivation.  Are there any other risks to perpetual that I need to be aware of (short on you not offering them anymore).

     

    Yeah  - moving forward there may be discounts that involve conversion and discounts that don't. You'll just want to make sure your sales rep knows that it's important to you to keep the perpetual and they'll steer away from any conversion deals.

     

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    4 minutes ago, Jimh said:

    For those who may choose R21 as their final license, does that mean MAXON will provide license verification server access indefinitely (unlimited)?

     

    An R21 perpetual license will activate via the internet and will validate its license online for a rolling 14-day period. There's no end date to the validity of an R21 perpetual license but it'll always be R21 (there will likely be bugfix updates but no new features).

     

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    61.49 Euro x 24 months x 20% discount = 295.15 Euro

    Perpetual License = 3,567 Euro

    3,567 Euro - 295.15 Euro = 3,271 Euro

    Did I get something wrong?

     

    Meaning if you go for the 2 year 20% discount you are losing 3,241 Euro

    This just feels like MAXON is trying to scam people out of their perpetuals for more than 10x the cash they already paid.  I thought MAXON was better than doing these, you didn't read the fine print, scams.  This should be illegal.  I'm so mad at MAXON right now.

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    I'm glad 3D-Pangel and RBarret got this cleared up. It was the one question that bothered me.

    But I think this forum and the CGTalk forum (and any others) should have a banner at the top that says: LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP - YOU LOSE YOUR PERPETUAL LICENSE IF YOU ACCEPT THE DISCOUNT  TO CONVERT TO SUBSCRIPTION 

    I can't imagine anyone would consider the cost savings from the discount balances out against no longer having a perpetual license. 

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  • On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:57 AM, arail said:

    I'm glad 3D-Pangel and RBarret got this cleared up. It was the one question that bothered me.

    But I think this forum and the CGTalk forum (and any others) should have a banner at the top that says: LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP - YOU LOSE YOUR PERPETUAL LICENSE IF YOU ACCEPT THE DISCOUNT  TO CONVERT TO SUBSCRIPTION 

    I can't imagine anyone would consider the cost savings from the discount balances out against no longer having a perpetual license. 

    Glad to know that my confusion was not unique.

     

    I originally thought that the 20% discount was a nod to the Studio users having to pay more over what everyone else is getting at a lower price should they renew their MSA.  In other words: an incentive for Studio users only to push them towards subscription.   Everyone else's incentive is that they get Studio for a lower cost.

     

    But that incentive comes at a price: you loose whatever perpetual licenses you have....so in reality it is now more of a dis-incentive than an incentive.  That fact was never made clear until you really pushed for it to be answered directly.  Everyone having that "ah-ha" moment with the answer only confirms that.

     

    Therefore, if moving everyone to a subscription is MAXON's ultimate goal (as all companies love the prospect of reoccurring revenue every year), then  the ONLY lever left to them is to significantly raise the cost of upgrading your existing perpetual license to the latest version in future years (eg. R21 perpetual to R22 perpetual).

     

    At $999, that is already a 53% increase in two years over the $650 MSA price.

     

    I think we can take increases in the cost of perpetual license upgrades as a hard fact at this point.  How do I justify this conclusion?  Easy.  Look at the two hardest pieces of information to get out of the MAXON team:

     

    1) What happens to my perpetual license should I take the subscription?

    2) What is the cost of upgrading a perpetual license.

     

    The answer to both of these questions reveal schemes that are to MAXON's advantage and not those of the Studio owner who values their perpetual licenses.

     

    ...and they wonder why the trust is lost.

     

    I hope I am wrong and am willing to give them 1 year to prove me wrong.

     

    Dave

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    I have got information directly from MAXON:

     

    "Dear Marco,

     

    If you renew your MSA you would get the R21 as perpetual license first. Then you can decide to stay with this license or to switch to subscription. It is correct that with the switch to subscription the perpetual license of R21 is no longer valid. But you could also keep the perpetual of R21 and start with a new subscription – there are several options." 

     

    Yes it would be nice if MAXON would warn people of switching form perpetual to subscription. You will always loose R21 perpetual by switching. So after renewing my MSA (to get perpetual R21), a two year subscription with 20% discount would make no sense for me, because i would be throwing out a $3K investment.

     

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