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3D-Pangel

What would drive you to subscriptions?

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Dave, my take on this is you will be able to continue using R21 forever even if you stop handing over money to MAXON. However you will probably need to connect the internet regularly for it to update its licence (or get the special arrangement with MAXON for an offline licence). If you have a current an active subscription then you get to run whatever the current version is at the time. When you stop handing over money you revert back to your last perpetual licence version.

 

My other take on things is MAXON expects to lose a few customers. Their logic is those not taking up subscriptions will be offset by new customers. Probably what I would do is bash on using R21 and then if and when they bring out a decent new version, then start giving them money again for a subscription. That may or may not be R22. The one certain thing I would be doing is not giving them any more of my money until I was happy with what was being offered to me. 

 

Cheers

Nigel / 3DKiwi

 

 

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The only way id ever subscribe would be on a rent to own basis.  This is on the reasoning that C4D to me is not just a business tool, but its a personal tool set for my own creative outlet, it serves both purposes.  Owning to me is a long term commitment, renting is a temporary one.

 

The only way id subscribe is when something is temporary in use, or it was way too expensive to purchase outright like a house.  Id rent a movie for a night, rent a car to cover a short period, rent a house or flat,  but software no thanks.

 

I have no issue with any company adding rental system to whats currently on offer, what I do have a problem with is removing or adjusting other options that remove benefits to the current user base that once where in place in order to redirect users to benefit the company outlined plans while pertaining that changes are for the benefit of its user base. 

 

I think the wise choice for MAXON to make right now is to be very careful how much they will charge for perpetual upgrades after r21.  Given that they are looking for ways for perpetual owners to keep Cineversity it does show they are willing to adjust for their user base, lets hope the upgrade price with Cineversity plans reflects this also.  Of course this should have been in place right from the announcement but id imagine that things where significantly more complicated from a business point of view as to why it had to be at Siggraph, Im sure they where well aware.

 

When Vray4C4D was handed over to Chaosgoup it was portrayed as a good news, this came as a huge disappointment to me, many where kicked out of their perpetual software for future versions of C4D from r21 onwards, and the choices that where in place was not realistic for all its users  (rental), Chaosgoup certainly caused me some Chaos, I lost my render engine thank you very much. Redshift was my alternitive, but while it certainly is faster at the cost of under a grand for a GFX card upgrade, it certainly dont offer what Vray gave me, so still I await Randomwalk to replace Alsurface.  When I hear the chime bells of rental it makes me on edge as I know very well first hand how it can pan out, lets hope MAXON tries to keep the balance that was there because this was one of the reasons I came to C4D in the first place.

 

 

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17 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

BUT LET'S BE CLEAR:  What I am asking is will my "perpetual license" be re-activated should I decide to no longer renew my subscription.

 

Again....still more clear in the hopes that there is NO way a MAXON representative can answer the wrong question:  Consider the following situation:

 

Year 2020:  Little Johnny has purchased or upgraded to an R21 perpetual license.

Year 2021: Little Johnny signs up for the 12 month subscription plan to use R22 via the subscription plan for the 2021 year but decides NOT to continue his subscription in 2022.

Year 2022: Little Johnny has NO SUBSCRIPTION PLAN and no access to R22.

 

And now the big question:  Will Little Johnny still be able to use his R21 perpetual license in 2022 under these circumstances?

 

Not sure why this is such a tough question to answer but along with everything else that is going on, it is the inability to answer direct questions like these with equal directness that is killing our trust in the company...

 

So can someone from MAXON please answer the question directly. 

 

I've answered that and many other questions directly. Honestly a big part of the problem is we've got multiple threads (including this new one) going on multiple forums, and I can't even find the answers I know I've posted anymore because there's over 1000 posts spread out all over the internet.

 

If Little Johnny has a perpetual R21 and later signs up for the 12 month subscription plan, he'll see two licenses in his MyMaxon account - an R21 perpetual license with 'unlimited' as the end date and a subscription entitlement with a specific end date. Both licenses can be used - so effectively two machines can be activated at the same time. When the subscription ends, the R21 perpetual will still be there.

 

If Little Johnny has an active MSA and takes advantage of the discounted 2-year offer to convert to subscription, his perpetual license will no longer appear in his MyMaxon account. He'll be able to use Cinema 4D for as long as he maintains his subscription. If at some point the subscription ends, he'll lose access to Cinema 4D. The perpetual won't be restored.

 

I've asked, and the updated EULA is supposed to go up on the website soon.

 

- Rick

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

If Little Johnny has a perpetual R21 and later signs up for the 12 month subscription plan, he'll see two licenses in his MyMaxon account - an R21 perpetual license with 'unlimited' as the end date and a subscription entitlement with a specific end date. Both licenses can be used - so effectively two machines can be activated at the same time. When the subscription ends, the R21 perpetual will still be there.

This I assume will only happen if a user has 2 or more people working on the same project at the same time as he would be paying his yearly upgrade for his perpetual licence, plus subscription, I cant see any other reason why anyone would rent if they already own a perpetual licence.  

 

I am still trying to work out why anyone would want to give their 3k licence up for a 2 year discount?  Even if MAXON was to offer the first 2 years of rental for free that still wouldn't pay for the value of a perpetual licence?  Maybe Im missing something on this?

 

Dan

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4 minutes ago, Rectro said:

This I assume will only happen if a user has 2 or more people working on the same project at the same time as he would be paying his yearly upgrade for his perpetual licence, plus subscription, I cant see any other reason why anyone would rent if they already own a perpetual licence.  

 

Correct - during the R21 cycle, customers may want to add a subscription to ramp up additional users. When later releases become available they may choose to add a subscription for access to those releases rather than upgrade the perpetual license (and indeed, some features will become available first to subscribers). Again, as long as they 'add' a subscription rather than 'convert' they'll retain the perpetual R21 even after the subscription ends.

 

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10 minutes ago, RBarrett said:

 

Correct - during the R21 cycle, customers may want to add a subscription to ramp up additional users. When later releases become available they may choose to add a subscription for access to those releases rather than upgrade the perpetual license (and indeed, some features will become available first to subscribers). Again, as long as they 'add' a subscription rather than 'convert' they'll retain the perpetual R21 even after the subscription ends.

 

This makes total sense and for this reason I can see how subscription is an advantage, more so for short term projects.

 

I hit the submit  button before I had finished writing the full reply above.  The additional part simply was to try to understand in what scenario would converting a perpetual licence for rental when the discount works out significant lower than what it would be to just selling his.her licence?  Would a 3k piece of software really devalue that much that a user would get less selling it  than the discount offered for them two years?

 

Dan

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I would be more inclined to subscribe to C4D if:

1. The monthly $60. fee would drop to $50. (or less) and be billed monthly (like Adobe CC, which I do subscribe to). I actually figured that because all non-Studio editions were eliminated, the cost savings would allow you to sell C4D for less than $3,000.

2. Either rent to own or a similar scheme that would allow you to end a subscription and pay off the balance and leave with a perpetual license.

3. An indie/freelancer price. Large design firms and studios have much bigger software budgets than the freelancer does. This should be taken into account.

Edited by Silvercity
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  • 3 hours ago, RBarrett said:

     

    I've answered that and many other questions directly. Honestly a big part of the problem is we've got multiple threads (including this new one) going on multiple forums, and I can't even find the answers I know I've posted anymore because there's over 1000 posts spread out all over the internet.

     

    If Little Johnny has a perpetual R21 and later signs up for the 12 month subscription plan, he'll see two licenses in his MyMaxon account - an R21 perpetual license with 'unlimited' as the end date and a subscription entitlement with a specific end date. Both licenses can be used - so effectively two machines can be activated at the same time. When the subscription ends, the R21 perpetual will still be there.

     

    If Little Johnny has an active MSA and takes advantage of the discounted 2-year offer to convert to subscription, his perpetual license will no longer appear in his MyMaxon account. He'll be able to use Cinema 4D for as long as he maintains his subscription. If at some point the subscription ends, he'll lose access to Cinema 4D. The perpetual won't be restored.

     

    I've asked, and the updated EULA is supposed to go up on the website soon.

     

    - Rick

     

     

     

     

    Rick,

     

    Thank you...so it is conversion from perpetual to subscription via the 20% discount that kills perpetual.    That is where my confusion lies. 

     

    So if I purchase an R21 perpetual this year, then I should NOT take advantage of the 20% discount for two years next year if I want to keep my perpetual license alive.   Correct?

     

    If I decide in one year to follow the subscription plan, then I sign up for a subscription for R22 (do NOT take the discount) and I will have two licenses in the MyAccount system:

     

    1) one for R21 perpetual

    2) one for R22 subscription.

     

    So is it correct to assume that only taking the discount to convert from perpetual to subscription that puts perpetual at risk of deactivation.  Are there any other risks to perpetual that I need to be aware of (short on you not offering them anymore).

     

    Thanks again,

    Dave

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    For those who may choose R21 as their final license, does that mean MAXON will provide license verification server access indefinitely (unlimited)?

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    3 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    So if I purchase an R21 perpetual this year, then I should NOT take advantage of the 20% discount for two years next year if I want to keep my perpetual license alive.   Correct?

     

    Correct.

     

    3 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    So is it correct to assume that only taking the discount to convert from perpetual to subscription that puts perpetual at risk of deactivation.  Are there any other risks to perpetual that I need to be aware of (short on you not offering them anymore).

     

    Yeah  - moving forward there may be discounts that involve conversion and discounts that don't. You'll just want to make sure your sales rep knows that it's important to you to keep the perpetual and they'll steer away from any conversion deals.

     

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