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R21: reenable internal Help-system?


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7 hours ago, Igor said:

What exaclty you dont like about it, except this online help issue? 

Nothing to dislike (apart from this super annoying and slow online help) but nothing to rave about either. There are no new major features  in this R21. Just fixes and some enhancements.

Would be ok as a .xx update  but not as a new release. 

And it’s not like C4d is ahead of the game.  It really lags behind in many critical fields. 

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We'll have some news soon on this. We've heard your feedback and are working to address it. - Rick

Okay...If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times: PLEASE STEP OUT OF YOUR ECHO CHAMBER and stop listening to yourselves.   Start listening to your customers.  Never consider an

The issue will be fixed in the next service release, which is coming soon.   Cheers, Rick

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Hell?

 

With all this V21 is not an Upgrade - it´s an Downgrade.

 

I've named the Cinema Help System in so many forums as an example of how to do that job - and now ???

The Offline Help-System was one of the most usefull tools in Cinema. And an USP for me.
I have the feeling that the NEW MAXON tries to get rid of its users by force.
I can hardly believe it.

(I have - security reasons - to work offline much of my time & I even don´t like a need of being online. Offline also faster)


The next step on the way to the Adobe world, um cloud?
(AE Bridge | Software rental | CEO (which is Adobe) | Mixamo (which is Adobe) | Substance (which is Adobe))
Will everything be the same as with Adobe? Is the online "help system" of Adobe now also the model for NEW MAXON? Have you ever solved a problem there?

Do we have to torment ourselves in the future through a "Help Community" or massively watch tutorial videos without finding anything in the end - as with Adobe?

Sparing R&D money at NEW MAXON? (Already as an next step/copy to the Adobe Universe?)
No matter what users want or need?

 

NEW MAXON should not only list the rare new features, but also all the features that have been eliminated or deteriorated (online forced | rental forced | no offline help | ....)
I have to control myself not to fail here.


MAXON was once a great company.
I do not like to write that because I know how great the employees in the past have acted, responded and helped (thank´s a lot).
But Adobes/Renting greed makes the software industry just cold and heartless.

Welcome NEW MAXON

 

NEW MAXON - As long as you are not under the hood of Adobe: You are NOT a monoploist as they are!

But honestly, I can not explain the behavior any more than ...- I bet my a** that MAXON will soon be found in the cloud.

 

PS.: Will Perpetual V21 loose it´s "help-system" when MAXON decides to no longer support it?

Will the "help system" be available in different languages in the future?

 

Even wonder if I should install the V21 Upgrade I´ve  payed for...
 

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I can live with the subscription licences even though it's not perfect - many softwares are moving in that direction in the last years, but I also think that putting the help system only online is a very very bad decision.  The offline help system was so powerful - I feel like I was a superhero and somebody stole my super-powers from me 😞 

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1 hour ago, 3dkobi said:

I can live with the subscription licences even though it's not perfect - many softwares are moving in that direction in the last years, but I also think that putting the help system only online is a very very bad decision.  The offline help system was so powerful - I feel like I was a superhero and somebody stole my super-powers from me 😞 

So true...I share your feeling. This decision does not make sense. Reminds me of Adobe’s s****y online help. Even X particles’s online help is a pain in the neck.

It s a big step backward and Ralph’s arguments make little sense to me. I don’t care about online being the next frontier. From a user standpoint offline was simply better. 

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Coming from a position where C4D's right-click-to-show help was the best in the industr,y this is not a step in the right direction.

For a while I've felt there was something going amiss. For instance the CAD importer that was put in place in r20 does not have associated help for its paramenters - leaving you to guess the result. Still not in R21 by the look of it.

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15 hours ago, MRalph said:

Hello,

I'm one of the Product Managers here at MAXON, and the one who managed the new deployment system's creation, so I felt I should reply.

The whole Cinema4D experience is moving into the modern online world. Online connectivity is something people assume nowadays. Having the help online greatly increases our flexibility and speed of deployment, especially for the numerous languages we support. It’s the modern agile approach and we are embracing it.

We’ve had a few isolated requests to have the Help made available in an offline form and we’ll investigate now the R21 is out.

I'm sorry you feel this release is below par, that's certainly not how we view it, nor how I testers have felt.

Kind Regards,

Ralph

 

Hi Ralph,

 

everything I heard about R21 and its benefits like: one version, subsciption, the lack of MSA in future, online help, the reduction of render clients to 5, and so on. are basically benefits for MAXON. The really annoying part is that you try to sell them as a great benefits for the customer.

 

the best feature in R21, the denoiser, it is intel technology with public source code ready to implement it into your application.

 

I asked around under colleges, I do not believe you know how much trust you lost, not just with R21 or taking away render clients, or even canceling the MSA (with no balls to tell us what it will cost in future) but with the attempt to sell this as great benefits.

 

best regards

Jops

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They know what's going on. They are all here in the forum. But unfortunately they feel misunderstood instead of trying to understand. They think they' ve just explained it badly. Instead of realizing that they have made decisions in their own interest, they have persuaded themselves that all these decisions would be great for their customers.

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5 minutes ago, Jops said:

They know what's going on. They are all here in the forum. But unfortunately they feel misunderstood instead of trying to understand. They think they' ve just explained it badly. Instead of realizing that they have made decisions in their own interest, they have persuaded themselves that all these decisions would be great for their customers.

Yeah, and that’s why they need to hear this again and again from as many people as possible, so that Ralph understands there are not only a handful of disturbed souls mourning the loss of the helpsystem.

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1 hour ago, Macgyver said:

Yeah, and that’s why they need to hear this again and again from as many people as possible, so that Ralph understands there are not only a handful of disturbed souls mourning the loss of the helpsystem.

Considering that the R21 is only out for ONE DAY, I wonder anyway where he got that idea. People haven't had time yet to complain. Whom did he ask? Betatesters who probably sit in an office with perfect internet connection and haven't needed the help while on a plane?

 

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Folks, I appriciate your feedback and Ralph did what he could in given situation etc. But I would like to ask you to be more polite. No need of sarcastic questions and so on. If you guys want to see some changes, I would go polite route and not bully route, becasue to that no one will pay attention. 

And yes, we have around 400 beta testers if I am not wrong and usually nothing slips to them or to us, but this was even for us "new". So there is still a chance this is going to be change in some way, so please, lets continue in nice and polite manners. Thanks 🙂

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