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Intenditore

An open letter to MAXON CEO McGavran

Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?  

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  1. 1. Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?

    • Yes
      59
    • No
      11


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Thank you for your feedback.  I have been on here and other forums reading all the responses. I am someone who loves talking to customers.  I will be at IBC and very happy to chat to anyone who comes by.  I will also be at many of the European stops on our roadshow.   I am not ever going to write long responses on forums, never seems to go well.  I am here, I am reading and the team is as focused on working with our customers as ever.

 

Hope we get to meet in person.


Cheers

Dave

 

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A positive note: it's good that you're here, and listening.
In the work that I do I regularly receive direct customer feedback. When I ask for it I like to say "It's always nice to receive good  feedback  -  but honest feedback is useful : ) "
Please be open to it all.

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  • It's awesome and unusual that you are here and read what people talk about, I do appreciate that. Despite that, your diplomatically vague answer make me suspicious regarding whether you will actually note that or not. Or you're an Adobe agent getting the company ready for acquirement by Adobe (oh no). I understand that your position has some restrictions and not everything may be said, but I still lean forward the suspicion I'm not too much wrong thinking about MAXON future.

    It is still very much concerning. Very much.

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    4 hours ago, Intenditore said:

    An open letter to MAXON CEO David McGavran

     

    David, I'm afraid we need to talk.

     

    I've came to Cinema 4D on r12. My first 3d program was 3ds Max, but a few years using it I felt it's stuck on evolution and I decided to move. Since then, Cinema 4D is my trusty and beloved home, the best piece of software I've got on my computer, the thing I rely on, my leaving and career relies on.
    I trusted it not only because of the features and quality it's got, but because the MAXON team's vision of the future, the attention they have to their work and management relation to community formed around. I was one of them when C4D was known as "not serious" amongst many 3d artists, I'm one of them now when it's (still) rocking 3d world.

    In recent years since MAXON announced the shift to a new core architecture a was waiting passionately to see it. Finally we stepped through the Rubicon and an unprecedented power uncovered to our vision, promising so many new things to expect!

     

    And now... Now it starts to seem like all that glory made by devs is going to crumble under a pressure of new freaking management approach.

     

    I know where you've came from, Dave. But the things Adobe did to their policy is the reason we leave, run away from them and try to substitute their products as much as possible as it's dangerous to rely on them nowadays. And the former MAXON relation to customer and the whole community on the other side are the reasons we adored this company and growingly loved Cinema 4D.
    I am SHOCKED to see these precursors of some very ugly changes to MAXON policy in recent time, this weak and humble evolvement of program in the last release, exactly in the such important point of it's history, when it shifts to top league, promising such a great functionality I'm afraid we would not see already.


    You could call me "headlong" for saying all of this, but nope - I saw such thing already (Canon, Apple, Adobe, Autodesk) and I have a distinct feeling of what's going on and what's coming next.
    Get me right, it's not personal (yet), you may be awesome in person, but where you start to lead us to - ISN'T WHERE WE WANT TO GO. And THERE IS a choice, and despite it would be a harsh shift like leaving a childhood home, we will shift if you keep it going. Not tomorrow, not in a year, but we will. Remember the death of "immortal" 3ds Max, you know what I'm talking about.

    I feel worrying for the YEARS AND YEARS of my hard work learning and mastering Cinema 4D. I feel worried for my entire career I relied on Cinema 4D. I feel the move you're taking is DISHONEST to us, the whole community, about like XSI murder by Autodesk felt.

     

    You're clearly taking the Adobe route. They told us the same - "constant updates with no need to wait untill release will let us push more cutting-edge features right on your table, increasing development pace will push the boundaries of your possiblilities and creativivivity way beyond today's standards" and so on and so on. What did this spaghetti on our ears turned into? You know by yourself - sluggish, buggy, unreliable software, from release to release bringing NOTHING we needed, nothing we were asking for DECADES (as folders in AE timeline for instance). For the price many times more adequate, growing constantly with no reason.

    Subscription? This isn't the key. I'm glad it exists, despite it's pricey I think, but it's on your side. It's good there is an option, this isn't a problem. The problem is the whole approach you try to take.


    "The whole Cinema4D experience is moving into the modern online world" as MRalph said. Let's face it, "online" is simply lidicrous here. "Online" - is a steel wire you tie us to yourself. Adobe did so, and as a result - constant stream of money made them not a software developers, but rather a typical rentier.
    That is what you try to do to OUR world, right?

     

    Recently I wrote an extensive list of improvements for C4D, spending my working time and thoughts to have a chance to make it better. Because I love it and wish to it to evolve. And I was sure if I mail it to MAXON, I have a chance to be heard, as our goal is the same.
    Now I feel like soon there would be no one to listen to us. Not even considering that, just like Adobe does.

     

    Isn't it a right time to stop and take a step backwards, Dave?

    You took the words right out of my mouth...

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    I have been a member here since I started.  I have posted a bit in the last days trying to help clarify stuff.  If you read my other posts you will find that I try to respond factually.  We are updating the FAQ based on questions so we can be consistent.  I was extremely lucky to get an opportunity at MAXON.  I have lived in Germany for a total of 9 years of my life.  We moved back here 3 years ago for family reasons.  So MAXON worked out great.   I get to work with an amazing team including the original developers of C4D.  We area all working extremely hard and having fun.  Can't be happier.


    Cheers

    Dave

     

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    3 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

    Thank you for your feedback.  I have been on here and other forums reading all the responses. I am someone who loves talking to customers.  I will be at IBC and very happy to chat to anyone who comes by.  I will also be at many of the European stops on our roadshow.   I am not ever going to write long responses on forums, never seems to go well.  I am here, I am reading and the team is as focused on working with our customers as ever.

     

    Hope we get to meet in person.


    Cheers

    Dave

     

    I am Marketing

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    42 minutes ago, Intenditore said:

    It's awesome and unusual that you are here and read what people talk about, I do appreciate that. Despite that, your diplomatically vague answer make me suspicious regarding whether you will actually note that or not. Or you're an Adobe agent getting the company ready for acquirement by Adobe (oh no). I understand that your position has some restrictions and not everything may be said, but I still lean forward the suspicion I'm not too much wrong thinking about MAXON future.

    It is still very much concerning. Very much.

    I would give you 10 likes for your posts, but the rules here tell me, that I can´t. I´m limited.

    The answer given by Mr Mc Graven was simply nothing than... "trust into Marketing blah-blah. I´m here. Love me. I will do nothing.

    Believe me or (better) not.

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  • Well, @3D-Pangel, you simply nailed it. Exactly. Applause!

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    3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    Those new customers you are hoping via your  "3D for the whole world" pitch are also looking at Blender.  Don't kid yourself.  They are looking at Blender 2.8.  Blender is now more mainstream in its interface and if you are new to 3D then why would you go with a subscription program at $720 a year or something that has a pretty good interface, proven character animation, modeling and sculpting tools, GPU rendering, a fast real time game rendering engine, particles, compositing, etc. for free?  

     

    As you deal with lackluster sales in 2019 and hope for a recovery in 2020, never forget that Blender gives us options.

     

    Is the hair standing up on the back of your neck yet? 

     

    Still having fun?

     

    No?  Well...then you better starting listening.

     

    Dave

    well said Dave.  Yes it is earth shattering Mr McGarvan posted on the Cafe, this has to be a first for a head of MAXON ..  or at least that we know of. 

     

    MAXON could be deluding themselves if they think someone just coming into 3D or has been poking around the 3D arena for a while trying out different software would pay for "monthly" subscription when they can get Blender for free or Houdini Apprentice for free (not sure of others).  Once the newbie gets fully into Blender, for example, they won't see the need to move on to something else, especially something they have to pay for.  Freelancers would probably start with C4D if it were actually month to month. They could use it for a job or jobs then in lean times not pay for subscription. You have not entirely painted yourself into a corner but you are rapidly running out of exit space. 

     

    this is all I will comment on about MAXON subscription path/plan. As Dave said they have invested a lot of time, energy and hardware to change because of some disgruntled users. I do not want MAXON to fail but I fear this path might not end well for them and C4D.  **SIGH**

     

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    I don't buy the argument  that one could easily switch to Blender. 

    C4D is by far the most intuitive program, and R21 just got even better with all the little adjustments. And the Mograph toolset is far ahead. 

    This on its own is priceless. But Blender is catching up fast. 

    Same for Houdini: modelling in Houdini is far from being intuitive. I would never consider it for a modelling job. 

    There are decent alternatives to C4D but none of them are perfect or hands down superior IMO. 

     

    I'm not so sure either about MAXON's "Adobification" : they clearly made a dodgy decision with their subscription model and  certainly lacked preparation when they announced it at Siggraph but the sole presence of MAXON's CEO, product managers or developers  on this forum is proof that the company listens. 

     

    I think a lot of grunts could stop with a powerful new release including an overhauled UV/BP toolset, RS integration,  new modelling tools (will I leave this world without an edge to circle command natively built in the program?), particles etc that would make people feel less ripped off. 

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